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[smjjames]

That’s what I meant by having no plan on how to do it, like the vehicle and plan to get there.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

There's no plan because the Ories couldn't stomach to do what they ought to have done (admit they don't have a plan and dismiss the referendum) because of what it would have done to their hold over the government, and so they just went full ham and hoped for the best. Except of course for David "Barnyard Tussle" Cameron, who saw the train coming and jumped straight off the tracks.

Not that it'll save Conservative in the end. That Red Laour government is coming down the pipeline either way, though they might have at least dodged Corbynism if they had bit the bullet.

[Loud Whispers]

There's no plan because the Ories couldn't stomach to do what they ought to have done (admit they don't have a plan and dismiss the referendum) because of what it would have done to their hold over the government, and so they just went full ham and hoped for the best. Except of course for David "Barnyard Tussle" Cameron, who saw the train coming and jumped straight off the tracks.

Not that it'll save Conservative in the end. That Red Laour government is coming down the pipeline either way, though they might have at least dodged Corbynism if they had bit the bullet.

You had the frontbench pro-EU Tories, who were right scuppered before the GE because their party constituents wanted an EU referendum and Cameron promised them one. Thus they could've broken their promise, but that would've meant giving the election to Ed Fucking Miliband. Thus Cameron goes on to launch the referendum with every sneeky breeki plan up his sleeve, with his ultimate trump card: Have no plan for Brexit despite proposing the referendum because you never intended to lose. He didn't just see the train coming when he jumped, he was the fucking driver, now we're all stuck on the train and it has no brakes

[hector13]

T’ be fair to Cameron, he did campaign for Remain (autocorrected to capitalized? A’ight) and the bookies were all thinking Remain would for almost the entire lead-up to the referendum, so when they lost he cashed in his get out of jail free card and fucked the fuck off.

Then everyone in the ensuing leadership contest dropped out because they realized what a poisoned chalice it was. Not sure if May was just the last to realize or she - despite having campaigned for Remain herself - genuinely thought she could lead the exit with some dignity intact.

Fair play to her I s’pose, she stuck around after botching a 20-point lead over six weeks after calling a snap election she didn’t really want, but then again the prominent Tories couldn’t really tell her she was shit ‘cause then it’d look like they were more interested in personal political gain instead of focusing on Brexit.

Politics would be funny if it didn’t have such a massive influence on everyone’s life.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

May's actions and her personality seem to line up pretty evenly - if she is playing at some game it's not a very good one. She's just totally straight laced and traditional, neither reconciled or radicalized by the existence of opposing ideologies.

Which makes Corbyn kind of a nightmare opposition for her. Much as it was deservedly mocked, I could see "STRONG AND STABLE" working under different circumstances. If the Laour candidate were a boring centrist who couldn't stir up any fire against "the nation does not need this divisive opposition in these trying times".  The issue is that Corbyn is exactly the type to show up and try to seduce people into the jaws of the left without shame. He meets Rule Zero, by being interesting and confident where as May's confidence comes off more like she doesn't entirely know what's going on.

[Sheb]

So in Brexit news I've had fun scoring up how many times the Tories made major own-goals but now I have depression.
1 Nov - Defence Secretary Michael Fallon resigns after multiple sexual scandals and sexual assault allegations emerge, replaced by Gavin Williamson, dubbed the Baby-Faced Assassin by peers.
8 Nov - Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel resigns after it is revealed she held covert & unauthorized meetings with senior Israeli officials in the Golan height, including the Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu, in order to discuss using British foreign aid development funds to pay for the medical treatment of Syrian jihadi militiants. What the fuck
30 Nov - Someone leaks (hint: It was the EU) that UK Brexit bill could cost £50B, when most voters stomach at most £10B. It would mean in effect that all the money the Tories promised would go from paying the EU and to paying the NHS, would go from paying the EU to paying the EU. Generates major salt.
1 Dec - Brexit Secretary David Davis in threat to quit over Damian Green porn storm, wherein MP Damian Green's parliamentary computer was found with thousands of porn images downloaded and so called upon to resign. Talk about a hung parliament
4 Dec - Tory backbenchers threaten rebellion if Gavin Williamson does not get Phillip Hammond to reverse planned cuts to Defence.
Literally now - Theresa May rejects deal reached between the UK-EU after the DUP made it clear that Northern Ireland absolutely could not remain under EU laws while the rest of the UK separated themselves.
Really just a political revolt within the party every odd week or so

You're forgetting a few:
-Don't make plans for Brexit. Even after the referendum, activate article 50 before knowing what exactly one wants.
-Don't make plans for who would lead if Cameron leaves.
-Nominate BoJo as Foreign Secretary, because he's just the person you need to make friends around the world when you deseperately need them.
-Throw election to strengthen majority against unelectable Corbyn, ends up in thrall to reactionnary leprechauns.
-Staff the government with a bunch of random Conservatives that May has no control on, and split the Brexit portfolio in so many ways that negotiating is impossible.
-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise.

I mean, apart from the negotiations themselves, it's quite amazing how late the UK is at all the things they'll need to do themselves now. Where is the EMA replacement? The thousands of new custom officers that will be needed? I mean, those are things which are more or less independent of the negotiations.

[Antioch]

I am still baffled that an advisory referendum with the most minimal difference in for and against was taken as an absolute and irrefutable reason to leave.

[TD1]

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine. 



Not that I'm a fan of the DUP, but alas, Northern Ireland politics are so bad that it's a case of "vote for us because you don't want those guys over there in power." Rather annoying, really.

[Culise]

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

Would "reactionary clurichauns" be better or worse?

[Sheb]

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine. 

Is the reactionary or the leprechaun part the offensive one? :p

[Loud Whispers]

T’ be fair to Cameron, he did campaign for Remain (autocorrected to capitalized? A’ight) and the bookies were all thinking Remain would for almost the entire lead-up to the referendum, so when they lost he cashed in his get out of jail free card and fucked the fuck off.

There's nothing fair in that; he was Prime Minister and deliberately sabotaged his own post and responsibilities on the assumption that he could manipulate the public exactly how he'd want to. Then like a complete mug he said he wouldn't quit if he Leave won, then quit as soon as Leave won. Can't be any clearer: He didn't do his job.

Then everyone in the ensuing leadership contest dropped out because they realized what a poisoned chalice it was. Not sure if May was just the last to realize or she - despite having campaigned for Remain herself - genuinely thought she could lead the exit with some dignity intact.

Boris Johnson was set to become Prime Minister with a solid hold on the Tory party when two hours before announcing his leadership campaign, his chief ally Gove announced his own leadership campaign. Caesar didn't drop out, he got shanked. Thus all the prominent Leave campaign Tories got kamakazed by themselves. May was the last one standing vs Leadsom, and of course we find out Michael Fallon was also being all pervy on Leadsom, and May was a lukewarm Remain supporter.

Fair play to her I s’pose, she stuck around after botching a 20-point lead over six weeks after calling a snap election she didn’t really want, but then again the prominent Tories couldn’t really tell her she was shit ‘cause then it’d look like they were more interested in personal political gain instead of focusing on Brexit.

Thing is, she did want the snap election. The polls gave her a 20 point lead so she took it for granted she'd win. Didn't even run a campaign. Same issue as Cameron, calling elections and referendums when the polls say you'll win and then not actually doing the work required to win.

May's actions and her personality seem to line up pretty evenly - if she is playing at some game it's not a very good one. She's just totally straight laced and traditional, neither reconciled or radicalized by the existence of opposing ideologies.

In summation she's a member of the conservative party

Which makes Corbyn kind of a nightmare opposition for her. Much as it was deservedly mocked, I could see "STRONG AND STABLE" working under different circumstances. If the Laour candidate were a boring centrist who couldn't stir up any fire against "the nation does not need this divisive opposition in these trying times".  The issue is that Corbyn is exactly the type to show up and try to seduce people into the jaws of the left without shame. He meets Rule Zero, by being interesting and confident where as May's confidence comes off more like she doesn't entirely know what's going on.

Corbyn is honestly a dream opposition for her which is what makes her snap election result such a bullet in the foot. Boring centrist leader sure would suck balls, but a charismatic centrist leader would be able to put a dirk to the cartoid and make it rain red while the reyns of castamere plays in parliament. "Strong and stable" would work in circumstances that are actually strong and stable, otherwise it strikes me as declaring the Era of Restored Tranquility just before the Emperor is assassinated. The major issue in May's confidence is that she's not very good with public confidence. Corbyn's been doing that for 40 years and is well versed in telling his own party or the tory party to fuck off, Theresa May by contrast does not like the cameras, didn't show up to her own debate and her leadership conference was marred by illness. I'd say she's done a good job in the workplace but she hired the lady who wants to arrest shitposters for being terrorists, so nah, nah no no.

You're forgetting a few

I was only doing the last month. The list would otherwise be much larger

-Staff the government with a bunch of random Conservatives that May has no control on, and split the Brexit portfolio in so many ways that negotiating is impossible.
-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise.

I agree with all your points bar these two; Theresa May cannot politically eliminate the previous government for the very reason that she has limited control over the party, thus must replace them as they resign. While she has been replacing previous cabinet ministers with her own loyalists, I'd say that's been bloody disastrous too. Sure they'll listen to her, but they'll also do things like make shitposting illegal, which is absolutely haram. Point being: It results in stuff like a man who has no service in the armed forces or ministry being promoted into one of the most important governmental posts. And on the latter point, it's untrue on both, with the brexit date set in stone. Really the only difference was whether the EU wanted to conduct negotiations as neighbours or enemies. Also don't call any Irish people leprechauns, it's not exactly anything they haven't heard too much before and they take it as considerably rude

I mean, apart from the negotiations themselves, it's quite amazing how late the UK is at all the things they'll need to do themselves now. Where is the EMA replacement? The thousands of new custom officers that will be needed? I mean, those are things which are more or less independent of the negotiations.

We can't replace the EMA when we haven't left the EU, and criticizing the UK for that is like criticizing the EU for not having even planned for an EMA replacement location yet.
In regards to customs staff:

An extra 5,000 customs staff will have to be hired to cope with Brexit, the Government has admitted.
The Cabinet agreed on Tuesday that the raft of new employees will be needed as part of Whitehall’s £500m preparations for quitting the EU - including the possibility of a ‘no deal’ outcome with Brussels on trade.
Brexit Secretary David Davis led a special discussion on the issue at the Cabinet, which also heard that 3,000 staff had already been hired so far to implement the exit from the European Union.

Preparations have already been made by the UK.

We are actually better prepared than the EU:

This would require much greater levels of enforcement at borders and ports, but many countries would not have the staff needed to implement this for at least a year after Brexit, according to analysis by the Financial Times.
Several EU states, including France and Germany, have lengthy training procedures for customs officers, meaning that, even if they began recruiting now, there would not be sufficient staff in place by the time the UK quits the EU in March 2019.
Germany trains officers for three years, while inspectors in France take two years to qualify. EU governments are said to be reluctant to invest in recruiting more officers while it remains unclear whether Britain will quit the bloc without a trade deal.
Should a trade agreement be reached, tariffs are unlikely to be introduced and so an increase in customs staff would be unnecessary.

[Sheb]

Fair enough on the political possibilities for May of controlling her government, but you were talking of Tories own goal, not May own goals after all.

Regarding the second point you contested, ("-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise."), unsurprisingly I disagree with you on both count. There has been a ongoing refusal from the Brexiteer since the referendum campaign to acknowledge that the EU, not Britain, would have the leverage in the exit talks. As an exemple I distinctly remember you arguing that since the UK was running a trade deficit with the EU, it had the leverage, which is, well bollocks.

This has been apparent also among the Brexiteer at the cabinet level, with BoJo's prosecco comment and Davis arguments that German carmakers would pressure Merkel into giving the UK what they want. That is a fundament misreading of the situation seen from the Continent, where Britain simply isn't that important, and those clumsy comment are seen as feeble ploy to divides countries, while they know that unity is key to strength in negotiations. (By the way, isn't it hilarious that there seems to be more unity on Brexit among EU governments than within the British cabinets.) As for negotiations between neighbours and enemies, that's crap too. The EU is simply defending the interest of its members and their citizens, wether on the Irish border or about the right of EU citizens resident in Britain. That you see that as enmity is exactly the kind of "expecting the EU to bend over backward".

Re: EMA, we have a replacement location, a building in the Zuidas business park of Amsterdam that the Dutch government will be paying for. Legislation to relocate has already been introduced by the commission. The relocation is also easier than creating the agency from scratch, since much of the staff can be retained. (There is going to be some disruption still, and new hires, but at leas the core function should be maintained without too much disruption according to internal survey.)

Now, what about the British side?

[TD1]

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

Would "reactionary clurichauns" be better or worse?

Probably better. Still not golden, though.

If you called the DUP reactionary leprechauns to their face, you'd get a reactionary fist in your face.

It may or may not be mine. 

Is the reactionary or the leprechaun part the offensive one? :p

It's the Democratic Unionist Party. I'm sure if you think really, really hard you can work out which bit would be offensive.

[Loud Whispers]

Regarding the second point you contested, ("-Walk into negotiations expecting the other Europeans to bend over backwards to sell prosecco, don't have a backup plans when it turns out otherwise."), unsurprisingly I disagree with you on both count. There has been a ongoing refusal from the Brexiteer since the referendum campaign to acknowledge that the EU, not Britain, would have the leverage in the exit talks. As an exemple I distinctly remember you arguing that since the UK was running a trade deficit with the EU, it had the leverage, which is, well bollocks.

1. Do you understand how fucking stupid it would be for our Prime Minister to acknowledge any leverage at all when the EU has made it clear their objective is to punish the UK? You might as well fault the Prime Minister for representing Britain instead of the EU. May's fucked up 20 times but that's not the 21st.
2. I made pages of sourced arguments and I won't have them be distilled into a tweet I never made. I was tired of it then and I'm too tired now.

This has been apparent also among the Brexiteer at the cabinet level, with BoJo's prosecco comment and Davis arguments that German carmakers would pressure Merkel into giving the UK what they want. That is a fundament misreading of the situation seen from the Continent, where Britain simply isn't that important, and those clumsy comment are seen as feeble ploy to divides countries, while they know that unity is key to strength in negotiations.

Boris Johnson is the absolute worst man for a diplomatic job and David Davis was making a sincere case to put co-prosperity over politics.

There is a fundamental misreading of the situation seen by the Continent. Not enough EU partners have supported co-prosperity such that it can overcome the EU; thus the EU wants to punish the UK. The EU treating us as an enemy has been the single most unifying factor in British politics.
"No deal would be the worst case scenario… No deal means no winners, everybody will lose.” - Juncker
But clearly Juncker does not control his own negotiators because the deals have been vindictive. This is after a poll revealed nearly three-quarters (74%) support the Government's position that no deal is better than a bad deal on Brexit. Even amongst remaininers now only 46% of Remainers say that the Brexit process should just be called off if Britain reaches March 2019 without a deal, meaning a majority of remainers and the vast majority of leavers are well prepared to leave with no deal unless the EU is capable of calming down.

(By the way, isn't it hilarious that there seems to be more unity on Brexit among EU governments than within the British cabinets.)

Why? There's no irony in it if you understood that British politics has always been controlled by pro-EU ministers stacking cabinet with pro-EU ministers. It bears repeating that in 2015 of the major parties you could vote for a pro-EU Tory leader, pro-EU labour leader and a pro-EU libdem leader. Even now our PM was on the remain campaign. We've had one year to sort out decades long interfactional splits between socialists, thatcherites, pro-EU and eurosceptic, liberal and conservative, all within a parliamentary democracy.

As to whether the EU governments are united, it just seems to me like the EU is doing as it always has done: No doesn't mean no if you're not listening. From the Hungarians calling EU parliamentary hearings witch hunts and communist show trials to the election of eurosceptics in Austria or the Visegrad group fucking off or the French-German integration happening despite Italian objections. This is not the result of a UK master plan of spies and ploys, this is the EU not listening to its own member states.
Consider that the UK was unquestionably an EU member and when Cameron went to negotiate reforms which would've allayed Brexit fears, the EU gave him nothing. The EU seems to have learned nothing from this lesson and now is like a Han Emperor, convinced the realm is fine when it's in it's most existential crisis. You could find that hilarious but it's pretty much business as usual tbh, it's rare to see yuros agree on something and it's bloody well depressing. The EU could give Europeans reasons to support it, instead it would rather give reasons to fear it.

As for negotiations between neighbours and enemies, that's crap too. The EU is simply defending the interest of its members and their citizens, wether on the Irish border or about the right of EU citizens resident in Britain. That you see that as enmity is exactly the kind of "expecting the EU to bend over backward".

The UK’s House of Lords has been warned that Britain will be made an example of by the European Union, if it votes to quit the bloc in the upcoming referendum.

Furious EU nations will force a draconian Brexit deal on the UK in a bid to deter other countries from leaving, the House of Lords Select Committee, which scrutinises British EU policy, was told in Brussels today (13 January).
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/house-of-lords-warned-eu-will-punish-uk-if-it-votes-for-brexit/

You can't lie to my face when the EU has made it clear for the last 2 years it is doing its best to punish the UK for leaving. To make an example of the UK to dissuade any other countries from daring to leave. There are not the actions of a neighbour protecting their interests, they are the actions of someone inflicting damage on a foreign entity for no personal gain: An enemy.

And I know you don't even believe in what you're saying. Cos on the one hand you believe the EU is almighty and the UK has no power, and on the other hand you believe the EU is being asked to bend over, when the UK is asking not for hegemony, but to not be given vindictive offers. Asking for our country to not be fucked over for spite is not asking the EU to bend over.

Now, what about the British side?

We're currently more focused no bolstering the NHS. Our biggest priority is telling the EU to sod off with their demand for 50 billion euros.
So frankly you can see why our country would rather go on our own and work with none of the EU if the attitude demanded for us is for the UK to bend over and beg for more punishment. Oh but of course, 5th largest economy in the world, we're irrelevant. That's why the EU can afford to do trade deals with New Zealand and not the UK, because New Zealand is too powerful to ignore 

[scriver]

You might as well fault the Prime Minister for representing Britain instead of the EU.

Actually this is a good point, as a member of the EU May should clearly advocate EU interests!