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[martinuzz]

in other news, the incident in Eindhoven yesterday must have really been a threat. Evening news reports that not just the Eindhoven police force was deployed to the city center, even the police forces from other cities, even from other provinces were all deployed to Eindhoven.

There's going to be two more of the same concerts today and tomorrow. Police didn't feel the need to cancel them. Police presence is overwhelming still however.
Had a few helicopters fly over today as well.

[martinuzz]

I get that usually this is how you get ambushed

That's not a concern here. We have no second amendment. Police being ambushed at a vehicle search or whatever just does not happen here. They didn't escalate, they just told the man that he wasn't allowed to park there. Don't know if they can be blamed for not spotting the guy was unwell. If it was a tia or somesuch, it's not always obvious for a non medical professional.

[smjjames]

Welp, that's on all of their consciousnesses now forever.

Maybe standardize responses to a situation? First check if they need help & escalate from there? I get that usually this is how you get ambushed but- fick this world needs better technology in order to deal with all these uncertainties. Heisenberg's principle says we just need one not all of these.

Heisenberg's Principle only applies to Quantum Mechanics, not humans and Murphy's Law.

If anything could have been done to prevent that, I'm sure the local police will check that out. Probably not.

I get that usually this is how you get ambushed

That's not a concern here. We have no second amendment. Police being ambushed at a vehicle search or whatever just does not happen here. They didn't escalate, they just told the man that he wasn't allowed to park there. Don't know if they can be blamed for not spotting the guy was unwell. If it was a tia or somesuch, it's not always obvious for a non medical professional.

Knives, illegal weapons maybe...

Not sure what a Tia model car has to do with anything.

[martinuzz]

A tia is not a car, it's a temporary clotting of a blood vessel in the brain. (Transient Ischemic Attack).

I get that for US cops, getting ambushed at vehicle checks is a daily reality and ever present fear. Over here, it maybe happens once a year, and then it's big national news and outrage. A policeman over here has more chance of getting killed in a traffic accident on the way to his job than he has chance of getting killed in the line of duty. (Well at least for a traffic cop. I suppose armed bank robbery teams and swat teams for raids have a slightly higher chance of injury, but still nowhere near the 'daily reality' level of the US)

[scriver]

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

[ChairmanPoo]

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

I assume they're perpetrated by trolls?

[Sheb]

In Sweden cops  (And ambulance drivers, and firemen) getting ambushed is called your average weekend. They just get attacked with rocks instead of guns.

Somehow I doubt that Swedish cops get thrown rocks at by someone who seems to be doing badly in his car. Sounds more like hooligans throwing stuff at passing cops.

[scriver]

Yeah I don't think people doing badly in their cars is the ones who ambush people in the US either.

And of course they're hooligans. I don't know why'd you assume they weren't from what I said.

[martinuzz]

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

[Sheb]

Yeah I don't think people doing badly in their cars is the ones who ambush people in the US either.

And of course they're hooligans. I don't know why'd you assume they weren't from what I said.

I dunno, that line of discussion was started by inteusino saying:

First check if they need help & escalate from there? I get that usually this is how you get ambushed but- fick this world needs better technology in order to deal with all these uncertainties.

Which led to martinuzz saying that cops getting shot by people that look like the need help isn't an issue in the Netherlands.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

Surely they can hold him indefinitely in a psychiatric facility, ala Brevik?

[martinuzz]

Nope, one year max.

[Sheb]

The maximum sentence the 14 year old boy that raped and killed the 14 year old girl can get is 1 year juvenile detention (not sure if plus, or or, a maximum of 1 year in a youth psych ward).
If he had been 16, the maximum sentence would be 2 years. But child protection laws limit it to 1 year for 14 year olds.

Surely they can hold him indefinitely in a psychiatric facility, ala Brevik?

Yeah, I can understand the logic of "He's only 14, we can reform him". I hope the one year doesn't mean "lock him up one year then release him in nature" and that he'll have some kind of therapy/parole thing.

[martinuzz]

Well ofcourse, once he's released, he'll be monitored by CPS and psychiatric services very closely. He won't be just released into nature, as you put it.
Once he turns 18 though, chances are that will all end. Because his criminal record gets deleted at that point, clean slate and all. He'll get civil rights to deny further treatment, because they're based off a conviction that can no longer be legally used as an argument.

EDIT: the argument is not "he's just 14, we can reform him" though. That's a misconception. The argument is that a child, whose brain, most notably the pre-frontal cortex, has not developed to a point yet where the individual is capable of mature impulse control, nor can fully oversee the consequences of their actions, cannot be held responsible for the full capacity of their actions.
So the argument for having juvenile law separated from adult law is not one of hope of reform, it's purely one of technical accountability.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That strikes me as grossly irresponsible. Most people with unfinished brains do not commit rape and overkill murder. It is willful ignorance to release him based on age without a confident psychiatric analysis suggesting he's actually stable. There exists no material difference in an atrocity committed by an adolescent and one committed by an adult.