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Author Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread  (Read 1098308 times)

Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4920 on: February 21, 2017, 02:19:53 am »

The Chamber of Commerce is just a lobby thing, they can't decide about tax status.

They probably have a test based in parts on the number of members or something. In Belgium, the state recognizes seven religions (who gets stuff like subsidies for priest salaries, the right to send chaplains or equivalent in prisons, etc etc): Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and ... "Organized Secularism".

So yeah, we have state-paid atheism priests.  :P
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4921 on: February 21, 2017, 05:42:43 am »

The Chamber of Commerce is just a lobby thing, they can't decide about tax status.

They probably have a test based in parts on the number of members or something. In Belgium, the state recognizes seven religions (who gets stuff like subsidies for priest salaries, the right to send chaplains or equivalent in prisons, etc etc): Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and ... "Organized Secularism".

So yeah, we have state-paid atheism priests.  :P
Hinduism is not a religion in Belgium? Makes sense, it's only the third or fourth largest religion in the world.
Also, how can organised secularism be a religion? You can have christian organised secularists, jewish organised secularists, muslim organised secularists, atheist organised secularists...

secularism is a political philosophy, not a religion.

Over here, chamber of commerce is not just a lobby thing. It's the official state office where you register a business, and get a business number and classification.
They're not into lobbying. Just filled to the brim with civil servants providing bureaucratic services.

Lobbying is done by the specific branche organisations, like the LTO (Land en Tuinbouw Organisatie) for agriculture.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 05:50:30 am by martinuzz »
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4922 on: February 21, 2017, 06:18:13 am »

Well, not enough Hindus in Belgium to get the recognition. That or they haven't filled in the paperwork for recognition yet. The list of official requirements are:
  • Have a significative number of faithful
  • Have an institution that can represent the religion to the authorities
  • Be established in the country for several decades
  • Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
  • Don't develop activities that goes against the social order

"Organized Secularism" is used here as a name by a bunch of atheist association that offers services normally offered by religions (organizing funerals ceremonies, supporting people in jail and co...) Structuring themselves as a religion allows them to get funding.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4923 on: February 21, 2017, 06:33:54 am »

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order
That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.
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Sergarr

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4924 on: February 21, 2017, 07:21:26 am »

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order
That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.
It's how European governments maintain the established social order - by reserving the right to ban anything that goes against it. That's also the reason why Europe has significantly less armed citizens.

So far, it seems to be working better than American model, given that they still have to do anything as bad as electing Trump. Hopefully, it'll stay that way.
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Sheb

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4925 on: February 21, 2017, 07:53:36 am »

Have a "social utility" (not sure what that entails)
Don't develop activities that goes against the social order
That doesn't sound like it could be abused or anything.

Why? It's not like non-official religion are banned, they just don't get subsidies.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4926 on: February 21, 2017, 10:45:29 am »

A majority of Dutch parliament voted for a new cannabis law, which will make the farming and transporting of cannabis legal. The idea is to rob the organised crime from one of their main sources of income, by allowing commercial farming of cannabis by government approved companies.
The law still needs to pass in Senate before it can be enacted.

Dang - it's about time. They've tried this a few times over the past decade, but it never passed parliament. They're right about it being a major source of income for organised crime. I'll be glad if it passes, so I know my money I spend at the (already legal) coffeeshop has less chance of ending up funding crime.

Dutch police have expressed concern though. They fear legal pot farmers will become targets of violent raids by criminals.
They already got a shitstorm over their concern in the media. As in - police shouldn't be intimidated by criminal threats.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 10:47:38 am by martinuzz »
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Antioch

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4927 on: February 21, 2017, 12:38:12 pm »

A majority of Dutch parliament voted for a new cannabis law, which will make the farming and transporting of cannabis legal. The idea is to rob the organised crime from one of their main sources of income, by allowing commercial farming of cannabis by government approved companies.
The law still needs to pass in Senate before it can be enacted.

Dang - it's about time. They've tried this a few times over the past decade, but it never passed parliament. They're right about it being a major source of income for organised crime. I'll be glad if it passes, so I know my money I spend at the (already legal) coffeeshop has less chance of ending up funding crime.

Dutch police have expressed concern though. They fear legal pot farmers will become targets of violent raids by criminals.
They already got a shitstorm over their concern in the media. As in - police shouldn't be intimidated by criminal threats.

about damn time.
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4928 on: February 21, 2017, 12:53:07 pm »

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm I'm hearing about?

I know nothing about these riots in particular, but attacking police, ambulances, and firetrucks is an almost everyday occurence in some suburbs these days (these are usually the same places that was listed in a police statistics report last year as places where the police de facto have no authority over).
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Sergarr

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4929 on: February 21, 2017, 01:10:27 pm »

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm I'm hearing about?
These riots are happening in a government-built district called Rinkeby (more like a self-contained mini-city, really) that was built in 60s-70s without a police station for unknown reasons and is populated mainly (80-90%) by immigrants, which ensued in a stable criminal presence in the area, especially after most of the other government offices and banks in the area have been shut down due to budget cuts. Recently, police has been trying to reintroduce themselves by patrolling the district and building up a police station, and as a result, there's some conflicts going on.

All of that is from a Swedish forum person, and are sourced to a Swedish newspaper DN, which has its own website apparently. I did not check it, but the whole "district without a police station" seems to be something that's very easy to fact-check and is something outlandish enough to be hard to invent out of whole cloth.

At least now I understand from where the persistent "no-go zones" rumours appear. This "district" is technically not a "no-go" zone, the police does try to enforce law over there, but the whole "no police station" aspect makes it de-facto as if it was a no-go zone, for the majority of the time.
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4930 on: February 21, 2017, 02:22:05 pm »

As far as I know the talk about "no-go zones" are from things such at this police rapport and it's follow up (what I was referring to in my previous post), which lists 55 "vulnerable" areas, of which 15 are considered "particularly vulnerable" areas where the police have little authority and criminal gangs can basically do whatever they want.
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4931 on: February 21, 2017, 03:49:03 pm »

I wouldn't be able to say either way, I don't feel I remember very well.
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Silverthrone

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4932 on: February 21, 2017, 05:56:57 pm »

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm I'm hearing about?

Can do, Sir! Well, scriver is far more quick on the ball, I must say.

It is, in all honestly, not anything particular, this riot. Not in the great scheme of things. I suppose that is a symptom in and off itself, but such areas tends to flare up rather reguraly. Usually (such as in this case) it is in response to someone being arrested by the police. They arrive, carry out the arrest, and the suspect's friends either comes rushing to disrupt the arrest, or go on a semi-organised rampage in reponse. Although it changes somewhat case-by-case, I think that it is fair to say that the main motivation is a vague "fuck da poleez". Policemen, fire engines and other authorities, as it where, get stones pitched at them, and unattended cars get torched. These flare-ups are rather short-lived, it is almost always over come morning.

It is also worth noting that there is a select group of people that are involved in these riots. It is usually young, semi-criminal (or gang prospects, trying to earn their spurs) men, and they do not have popular support in the neighbourhood. Indeed, policemen responding to a similar flare-up in another city noted that people cheered for them from windows and balconies. However, people are naturally afraid to confront the hoodlums openly, and they do affect how people live their lives. While the criminal gangs do not effectively rule these areas as they wish, they have a very large influence.

Now, Rinkeby in particular is a bit of a back-water. 'In Stockholm', as noted by the headline, is not entirely true, it is a low-market suburb at the outskirts (an old ABC suburb, somewhat equivolent to the council estate blocks in England). Other than that, the article you linked is an accurate summary. The only unusual element to this particular flare-up was that one police patrol were so seriously troubled that they had to open fire. That is rather unusual (and I imagined it stained a few pairs of 'genuine' gangzta underpants, as well), although warning shots have been fired before.
As of now, it is the usual: social agencies are running through their usual "we will focus on this, that and this" routine and the police stepping up their patrols in the area. There is, as far as I can find, no particularly different re-action to this case, and I fear it will mostly be business as usual, for the time being.

Anyone have a decent source or insights (hoping scriver, Silverthrone or one of our other Swedes will fill us in) about these riots in Stockholm I'm hearing about?
These riots are happening in a government-built district called Rinkeby (more like a self-contained mini-city, really) that was built in 60s-70s without a police station for unknown reasons and is populated mainly (80-90%) by immigrants, which ensued in a stable criminal presence in the area, especially after most of the other government offices and banks in the area have been shut down due to budget cuts. Recently, police has been trying to reintroduce themselves by patrolling the district and building up a police station, and as a result, there's some conflicts going on.

All of that is from a Swedish forum person, and are sourced to a Swedish newspaper DN, which has its own website apparently. I did not check it, but the whole "district without a police station" seems to be something that's very easy to fact-check and is something outlandish enough to be hard to invent out of whole cloth.

At least now I understand from where the persistent "no-go zones" rumours appear. This "district" is technically not a "no-go" zone, the police does try to enforce law over there, but the whole "no police station" aspect makes it de-facto as if it was a no-go zone, for the majority of the time.


Yes, it can be a rather confusing misunderstanding, and I was rather confused about that, myself. As a special treat for the thread; A Very Brief Run-Down of the Swedish Suburbian Districts.

These areas (Rosengård, Hammarkullen, Husby, Rinkeby, Hjällbo, I shall be making a riot bingo one of these days, you see) are very similar. They are in different cities, but have the same properties; they are mainly areas of low-income and low-education. They tend to be mainly populated by immigrants, first to third generation, usually of the same or similar ethnicities. Actual local conditions differ, but it is a good average.

They are rather like self-contained mini-cities; that was the idea when they were built during the 1960's to the 1970's, in a massive government construction effort named The Million Programme (named after the ambition of building one million new dwellings). The idea was to provide most of the services an average citizen could need in one area, with good public transport routes to the city proper.
Unfortunately, that only works for as long as authorities (civil and state) remain a presence in these centres, and there has been an awful lot of ill-advised centralisation in the last decades. Most cities only have one central police station, for instance, and many other government offices of various sorts, like social offices, simply are not available in many suburbs any more. And, as noted by Sergarr, neither are other important institutions, like banks and special retailers. This creates a very real sensation of isolation, and creates an estrangement with other parts of the city and of society.
That is not to say that it is the same in all areas. Some are recovering, as this isolation is becoming more known, and more is being done to re-bind these neighbourhoods back into the city. Indeed, repairing the cracks in the old Million Programme is, if not well under way, at least on-going.

About No-Go Zones: As far as I know, there are no zones where the police simply will not go for fear of being hurt, but there are areas where they know they are not welcome, and will need to be careful.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4933 on: February 21, 2017, 08:17:50 pm »

Just finished catching up to the Euro jokes thread and dang, this is the best politics thread by far

martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite EU-related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #4934 on: February 22, 2017, 12:15:57 am »

Dutch Moroccan rapper Ismo has been convicted by a high court to a fine of 1500 euros for including the lines "I don't shake hands with faggots and I hate jews more than I hate the nazis" in one of his songs.

Earlier, a judge had cleared him of hatespeech charges, argueing that he was allowed to say that under free speech laws, but the appeal High Court destroyed that earlier verdict.

Ismo's statement that he didn't mean homosexual persons with the word 'faggots' was deemed incredible, nor was his argument that bad language is an inherent part of rap music appreciated by the court.

Serves him right. Punishment is low though. 1500 euros, of which 500 conditional.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479
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