Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[TempAcc]

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

[LoSboccacc]

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

if the quota are built using random picks for distributing family groups they'd get to save face while preventing the border nations to pay the social price.

[martinuzz]

The Yazidis suffer more misfortune by having the terrible judgment of being Christian.

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

[Silverthrone]

The Yazidis suffer more misfortune by having the terrible judgment of being Christian.

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

I am dreadfully misinformed, it would seem. Strange, but thank you for the correction. I was under the impression that it was a smaller sect, with Zoroastrian connections rather than being an entirely different group entirely. Very fascinating.
Dear, oh dear, that makes their situation even worse. They have had a terrible fortune, the poor sods. I can imagine that, not being one of the main three faiths, they are effectively the region's chew toy. Particularly if IS cannot even be bothered with that protection racket charade for their count.

Again, thank you. That was quite illuminating.

But that, sir, would require authorities to recognize that sunni and salafist immigrants are troublesome, which will never happen, at least not in germonyland, the land of feminists that defend muslims instead of women :U

It is odd. Very odd. I understand that doing some sorting and processing can sound unpalatable, but it ought to be in everyone's best interest, all together. I simply do not think that a Moroccan has the same need for asylum in an European state as a Syrian, from a vulnerable minority group. Not to mention, doing some elementary sorting and registering means that you can avoid situations in which he is left alone in a hostile group.
It is a fairytale, this idea that all migrants are all the same type, with the same need, the same intention and, let it be stated, the same worth. That is, in terms of willingness to adapt and behave. It is a tale that does not do anyone any good, either. It simplifies things, no doubt, but that is the last thing that is needed. Too much is already sacrificed because of short-term "goodness" that is an irresponsible ersatz for what would be the good but difficult things to do.

[Sheb]

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

[Silverthrone]

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

Well, yes, the doors are not entirely wide open with no processing at all. The question is, is it very effective? I can only speak from what I see, but it does not seem particularly waterproof. It also seems very impopular in some opinion circles, for the reason that I had a grumble about: the simplified idea of the refugee and a very simplified idea of what is the best thing to do.

I think I have caused rather the misunderstanding, though. It was a very general grumble, so from now on, directly on the topic directly reguarding the Portugese business: As far as I can see, they want to fulfill their asylum obligation rather à la carte. Greece, and no doubt the other more decidedly frontline member states, are not very thrilled. It is understandable, for no one wants to be left with a major share of the difficult cases, while the neighbours snatch up all the easier ones. It would be particularly sore for Greece, in this case.
I am unsure. On the one hand, it would not be particularly fair if some member states could pick and mix as they pleased, while others could not. On the other hand, a sovereign nation ought to have at least some say and control in which people they will accept. I would also imagine that a special asylum-scheme like it would not be a terribly bad idea when it comes to smaller ethnic groups likely to be victimised by other majority migrants. Of course, negotiating who will host them is another exorcise entirely.

[Rolepgeek]

Equal-share proportional to population is the simplest solution. Equality between sovereign nations, much like equality between individuals, is often the best way to resolve such disputes. If nations agree to trade some share of refugees amongst each other, they can, but equal shares as a starting point, and sucking it up if you feel like that's somehow unfair, is rather the default, yeah?

[Sheb]

Silverthrone, did you pay attention to what's happening? Of course we sort migrants and asylum seekers. The issue here is whether Portugal should sort WITHIN those that have been grante asylum.

Well, yes, the doors are not entirely wide open with no processing at all. The question is, is it very effective? I can only speak from what I see, but it does not seem particularly waterproof. It also seems very impopular in some opinion circles, for the reason that I had a grumble about: the simplified idea of the refugee and a very simplified idea of what is the best thing to do.

Well, yeah, due process make everything hard. Notably, it's quite difficult to deport those that had their asylum application rejected.

[Culise]

Equal-share proportional to population is the simplest solution. Equality between sovereign nations, much like equality between individuals, is often the best way to resolve such disputes. If nations agree to trade some share of refugees amongst each other, they can, but equal shares as a starting point, and sucking it up if you feel like that's somehow unfair, is rather the default, yeah?

And an immediate outcry arose from the poorer countries, "why not equal-share proportional to national wealth?  Just because we have more people doesn't mean we have more money."

[Loud Whispers]

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

As a point of information, IS is not letting Christians live with Jizya tax, that's what the moderates are doing. IS is just killing them or forcibly converting their daughters

[Sheb]

Uh, no? Yazidis are not at all Christian. They have their own belief, which apparently is most closely related to Zoroastrianism, with incorporation of some aspects of jewish, christian and muslim traditions.
In fact, IS regards them as worse than Christians. Christians are allowed to live if they pay taxes to the caliphate. Yazidi are regarded as devil worshippers.

As a point of information, IS is not letting Christians live with Jizya tax, that's what the moderates are doing. IS is just killing them or forcibly converting their daughters

I4ve seen conflicting stuff on this, notably that IS allow the Jizya to be paid, but only in gold or something. Is there any good reporting on Christians/other religious minorities under IS rule?

[Loud Whispers]

I4ve seen conflicting stuff on this, notably that IS allow the Jizya to be paid, but only in gold or something. Is there any good reporting on Christians/other religious minorities under IS rule?

I'm shocked that it isn't common knowledge tbh
2014, the genocide becomes common knowledge
2016, EU officially declares it genocide

This is a more interesting read than the EU article, which is very legal

[Sheb]

Well, I knoew it was bad, but I was looking for details of how it was bad. Thanks for the links, I'll hava a read.  'Probably not going to be by the end of it)

[Loud Whispers]

Yeah I've only seen them do ironic jizya where they force them to give up all their hidden wealth and once the wealth runs out, kill them and take their daughters with forcible conversion. You'd think forcible conversion wouldn't be so bad because there's always the hope of escape and reconversion, but the penalty for leaving the faith is death so it's pretty shit with a hope of shit and an expectation of lifetime shit

[martinuzz]

Yeah I've only seen them do ironic jizya where they force them to give up all their hidden wealth and once the wealth runs out, kill them and take their daughters with forcible conversion. You'd think forcible conversion wouldn't be so bad because there's always the hope of escape and reconversion, but the penalty for leaving the faith is death so it's pretty shit with a hope of shit and an expectation of lifetime shit

And even if they do escape they will probably be cast out by their Christian families because they lost their virginity to a muslim.