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[TempAcc]

Its a pretty shitty thing to do, but its also pretty shitty that the whole situation has become so utterly ridiculous in the region that measures such as these need to be applied, or else you get a second mass abuse episode. People can cry crocodile tears and call the policemen fascists all day, but if actual border control was a thing in the first place, then maybe this wouldn't have happened.

Inb4 the media outcry about this actualy becomes larger then the one about the mass abuse in cologne months back, because womens' safety is only a thing to worry about when it fits the major narrative, as usual.

[LoSboccacc]

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city

we live in  a world where sharia patrol purposely stalk alone women in less populared areas

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin.

nope it's a problem with the islamic system of belief ( woman without male escort deserves rape, gay deserve violent deaths and such), and we're significantly importing more than we can civilize

[scriver]

That's because their solution was to judge someone's criminal nature based on the colour of their skin, as opposed to the likelihood of them committing the crimes they're being "prevented" from committing.

Christ, increased police presence would probably have sufficed.

now you're just pissed because underneath you know cultural profiling works and it unsettles your belief.


btw you cannot magically materialize unlimited police at the correct time/place. what kind of fantasy world you live in? they bolstered numbers however they could, but covering a city spreads them all a lot.

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin, and that, if you'll excuse the bluntness, is utterly fucking stupid. It doesn't "unsettle my belief", it goes completely against it.

I'm curious for the source of your assertion that racial profiling works, though. Seems like security forces of the world are missing a trick if you're right.

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city, just the main parts where people gather. This can be made easier by holding official gatherings or outlining places where people can celebrate together. Strategic placement is better than trying to assuage the town in security. You don't need unlimited police to do that.

Prevention is better than the cure, especially if that cure involves labeling people criminals based on skin colour.

This is what prevention looks like. This is what showing that the police is present looks like.

Now I'm not super good at neither English, German, nor German-to-English legal terms, but it says these people where "detained". It makes a difference between these and those "arrested overnight". From context, it looks like all this means is that these detainees were stopped and made to identify themselves. What is this if not the police making the statement that "we are here, know who you are, don't try anything"?

Remember, Cologne has a populace of a million, with lots of partiers streaming in from outside for the celebrations. 100 people was held overnight, and there's no indication in the article this isn't the entire sum of arrests for the night, including the usual unruly drunks and criminals. Is that a number to be upset over?

"But scriver", my make-believe dialogue partner objects, "what's the problem isn't the amount of people detained, but how the detainees were selected". But if this group is known to have been disproportionally perpetrating these crimes last year, should the police instead just pretend those facts does not exist?

[Rolepgeek]

The Cologne police also don't have to cover the entire city

we live in  a world where sharia patrol purposely stalk alone women in less populared areas

I like your little euphemism there. Let's not sugarcoat this, it's profiling people based on the colour of their skin.

nope it's a problem with the islamic system of belief ( woman without male escort deserves rape, gay deserve violent deaths and such), and we're significantly importing more than we can civilize

Ah yes that uniquely Islamic system of belief that exists nowhere else in any of the testaments, and which all muslims hold in identical fashion, because there are not separate groups and sects of Islam.

Detained could as easily be held for an hour or more, scriver. Additionally, creating antagonism between average group members and police officers rarely ends well. Literally look at the relationship between American police forces and African-Americans, and tell me whether you think doing so has improved the situation, or whether it's deteriorated trust in the law to the point that it becomes hard to maintain it?

[LoSboccacc]

lol no most other belief system were replaced with freedom of tought in time but nice try.


beside what you're proposing is inhumane: waiting a mob to start and 'control' it through police, as if that won't result in violence and as if policemen aren't human being too.

[Shub-Nullgurath]

Interesting rundown of everything Islam related that happened in Germany over the past year.

[scriver]

Additionally, creating antagonism between average group members and police officers rarely ends well. Literally look at the relationship between American police forces and African-Americans, and tell me whether you think doing so has improved the situation, or whether it's deteriorated trust in the law to the point that it becomes hard to maintain it?

Well, duh. The thing is that it is further deteriorating of the trust in law to do nothing. In Kalmar, the Swedish city reportedly hit the worst one year ago, barely any women showed up for the celebrations this year/url], presumably because they do not trust the law to protect them. The fear of dealing with this problem is causing women to stay home or away from the squares of their own streets out of fear of being abused or worse. But hey, the sexual harassment reports were down 97%, so it's clearly good for the statistics!

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

[smjjames]

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians. 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

[LoSboccacc]

Numbers are partially skewed by the order of underreport and mis report syrian refugees crimes

[hector13]

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

[LoSboccacc]

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

Well for one they're homegrown. With an ocean to cross there's little chance for migration waves like what  we see. If anything the parallel are better drawn between usa latinoes and our middle easterners, but still it's quite flawed a comparison.

[TempAcc]

Yeeeeeeeea, I don't see any significant parallels between the situation of african americans in the US and all the different people's that encompass the refugee wave in Europe.

Racial issues in the US seem to steem mostly from recent historical and domestic issues, while the issues in the EU steem from the massive cultural, religious and social clash you're expected to get when you try to integrate millions of people who come from cultural, traditional and religious backgrounds almost diametrically opposed to the domestic one. US african americans are actual americans, born and raised, sharing in its culture and customs, while the refugees come from different countries with different backgrounds.

Trying to compare both groups and blaming all of it purely on "racism" seems to me as a very dishonest and cheap way to ignore the actual issues in play (and not do anything about it) and just blame one group or another for it, which is, ironically, kinda racist when you think about it :U

[scriver]

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians. 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

Syrians don't look particularly more different to the average north european than North Africans does. Do you think North Africans are actually black, in the sense that afro-americans and sub-saharan Africans are? Because they aren't - they're Arabs. Black North Africans are tiny minorities. You might as well switch syrians with blacks and north africans with whites.

And really, the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe is vast. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

What is the difference between the situations of african-americans in the US and North African and Middle-Easterners in Europe?

The situation in America is rooted in a long history of oppression, repression, and depression that out-elders the country itself. Europe's situation is modern. Comparing the relationship of the American police and the Afro-American populace to the one between European states and immigrants is comparing a relationship that is based on roughly 175 years of systematic repression (just after the whole slavery thing) to one where people have arrived within a generation from now and encountered modern, European, police policies and laws rather than the ingrained racism of the American system.

[Loud Whispers]

mfw europe

[smjjames]

I'm just being skeptical about the statistics. I'll admit it's a flawed example, but I was trying to explain the skepticsm. Besides, how is it that the Syrian refugees have a crime rate that is probably on par with most immigrants and natives, and the refugees fron North Africa have a much higher rate? There wasn't any link to the data itself, just a mention of the percentages for Syrians and for North Africans (or Maghrebians as the article puts it).

Just throwing percentages around without giving actual data, especially when the groups...

*goes afk*

*comes back and reads new posts*

The antagonism is created by all the criminal activity that certain groups are perpetrating, rather than the efforts to protect the German public from that activity.

For example, 40% of Maghrebi refugees got in trouble with the police within a year of their arrival in Germany, compared with 0.5% of Syrians. 'The Düsseldorf statistics also show that north Africans commit a crime on average every 3.5 hours in the city.'

It was a mistake to let such huge numbers in. God knows how many more Germany is going to end up with after Merkel wins the election this year.

I'd question how much of it is actual crime and how much of it is racism. Like how 0.5% of syrians commit a crime, yet nearly half of North Africans commit one. Switch syrians with whites and north africans with blacks, and it looks a HELL of a lot like racism. Just being a skeptical American here and questioning the statistics.

Syrians don't look particularly more different to the average north european than North Africans does. Do you think North Africans are actually black, in the sense that afro-americans and sub-saharan Africans are? Because they aren't - they're Arabs. Black North Africans are tiny minorities. You might as well switch syrians with blacks and north africans with whites.

I'll admit I may have misunderstood or misconceptualized as to the color of the skin, or made a false assumption. And also laid some of my own countries history over the situation, typical American, am I rite? heh

The main reason why I was being skeptical, even if my reasoning for it is off, is because there were no details given for the statistics. All the article does is say X percentage of group Y and A percentage of group B, we don't know the numbers here and it doesn't link to the source of the statistic (unless I missed it). 0.5 percent of how much? 40% of how much?