Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sheb]

Source also says he was Turkish. I wouldn't jump at the salafi that quickly first of all they killed on guy instead of blowing the building all the rebels apart maybe for the Turks have reasons to be sore at Russia.

Edit: Apparently the killer was Mert Altintas, a 22-years old police officer. Apart from Allah Akbar he was shouting stuff along the line of "Don't forget Syria, Don't forget Aleppo, as long as our brothers aren't safe you won't be safe".

[smjjames]

From CNN and BBCnews sources, nobody has said who they think is behind it. All we know is that the guy was a plainclothes policeman.

[Sheb]

Apparently he was a spec ops policeman off duty. He was also shot within 15 minutes by the same spec ops unit *conspiration theroy intensify".

[smjjames]

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

[Sheb]

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government everyone will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

I mean, of course. At least they'll have trouble blaming it on the PKK.

[Baffler]

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

There is literally video of him saying these things. I won't link it since it obviously also includes him shooting the ambassador, but it's not difficult to find.

[Rolepgeek]

Err, pretty sure there are non salafist radicals, the whole "lol its all the salafists' fault" is kinda conspiracy theory tier. Salafists are fundamentalist radicals, yes, but terrorists in general come from all branches of islam. Its also kinda hilarious how people go "salafists aren't muslim guyse". Yea, and westboro baptists aren't christians, either, sure.

That is in fact something I've heard. That their behavior goes against the principles of Christ's teachings and that therefore they are Christian only in name, despite their origin. These are the people that also usually say Mormonism isn't Christianity but an offshoot of it.

Eh, I've said it before, my criticism of Islam isn't its content, but its decentralization. You can't reasonably "denounce" a particular sect when you're so decentralized that none of the other sects care about your opinion, and there's barely any notion of a leadership hierarchy for most sects anyway. Of course, this also makes it really easy to spread, but the consequence is... well, what we're seeing today. It's easy to take a faith and misrepresent it and mold it into whatever bastardized image you wanted to create when there's no one around to tell you that you're wrong.

My question as to the above was actually not a hypothetical; was blanking on any examples outside of salafists. Thanks, though, for reminding me of a few.

I'm curious as to what you mean. Is it easier for a religion to spread when centralized or decentralized? The Catholic Church managed to help Christianity spread quite quickly, and seems like the golden standard for religious centralization.

@smjjames: I understand the instinctive urge to try and challenge any sources that say things that could be used to further provoke violence against minority groups. However, there's a principle of debate called equal application of rigor; don't challenge something just because it's inconvenient for it to be true any more than you would challenge something that you would prefer to be true. :/

@Covenant: Not helping.

[Sergarr]

I had posted that while you had edited your post. He is also from the Aydin province, which I wiki'd and it's on the west coast of Turkey. Regardless of where it's from, the Turkish government everyone will probably spin it in however way that benefits them.

I mean, of course. At least they'll have trouble blaming it on the PKK.

Then they'll blame it on Gulenist conspiracy, duh.

[smjjames]

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

There is literally video of him saying these things. I won't link it since it obviously also includes him shooting the ambassador, but it's not difficult to find.

I meant the claim that he was a salafi islamist, which there is no evidence for atm.

fakeedit: This just ain't a good day is it, there was this shooting of three people near an islamic center in Zurich, not much detail atm and then a couple min ago is a truck plows into a German christmas market, BBC link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38373867  little info atm.

[smjjames]

Eh, I've said it before, my criticism of Islam isn't its content, but its decentralization. You can't reasonably "denounce" a particular sect when you're so decentralized that none of the other sects care about your opinion, and there's barely any notion of a leadership hierarchy for most sects anyway. Of course, this also makes it really easy to spread, but the consequence is... well, what we're seeing today. It's easy to take a faith and misrepresent it and mold it into whatever bastardized image you wanted to create when there's no one around to tell you that you're wrong.

My question as to the above was actually not a hypothetical; was blanking on any examples outside of salafists. Thanks, though, for reminding me of a few.

I'm curious as to what you mean. Is it easier for a religion to spread when centralized or decentralized? The Catholic Church managed to help Christianity spread quite quickly, and seems like the golden standard for religious centralization.

Well, I'd say that it certainly helped it spread and stick around in various... more contested areas, without necessarily needing a direct push. Doesn't it have over 1 billion practicing members these days? Part of those numbers come from decentralization.

I don't think centralization has anything to do with that, just the will and desire to spread the religion. Christianity didn't become centralized until centuries after Christ. Though that was partly due to the fact that it was driven underground for a while.

Not sure why we're getting into a religion derail though....

[Vilanat]

So, Russian sources says he was a Salafist? lol, because Russia is globally known for its "journalism" accuracy.

Did he need to be a Salafist to kill the Russian ambassador? did he need to be a Salafist to be upset about other muslims dying in Aleppo? nope. he probably had a strong religious identity, but that doesn't mean he was religious himself, let alone a Salafist.

Besides, Hezbollah, Russia's ally, is a radical Islamic organization.

[smjjames]

So, Russian sources says he was a Salafist? lol, because Russia is globally known for its "journalism" accuracy.

Did he need to be a Salafist to kill the Russian ambassador? did he need to be a Salafist to be upset about other muslims dying in Aleppo? nope. he probably had a strong religious identity, but that doesn't mean he was religious himself, let alone a Salafist.

Besides, Hezbollah, Russia's ally, is a radical Islamic organization.

I'm not so sure Hezbollah is actually an ally of Russia, but yes, Russia is an ally (not sure how close they actually are) of Iran. So, in the sense of by proxy and through guilt by association, Hezbollah is an ally of Russia.

[Sheb]

Well, Hizbullah is fighting side-by-side with Russia in Syria. Iranically, the US if fighting alonside "Hizbullah in Iraq" in Iraq. But that's apparently a different, unrelated Hizbullah (Which mean "party of god").

[Loud Whispers]

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

Watch the video yourself if you disagree on the commentary

Also Germany Christmas market attack
I ran out of things to say about Germans destroying their country a long time ago

[smjjames]

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

Watch the video yourself if you disagree on the commentary

The saying "Allahu Akbar" is a common saying, almost exactly like you or me saying "Oh My God", so, just saying it isn't a sign of being a salafist on it's own. Though it will draw attention to you in most places in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takbir.

i'm in no way condoning the act, just saying that speaking those words don't automatically make one a salafist.