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[Helgoland]

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

[SaberToothTiger]

Attacked by police? Aww, that's cute. And police mobilization in whole country? Where? When? What?

Sorry for the second reply, Kot, but police certainly was mobilised and deployed to the capital. This may be due to the football match, but I doubt a match with a third league team would cause that much unrest. Even while commuting on today's evening I passed by twenty policemen with riot gear (armor, shields et cetera).

Link one.
Link two.
Link three.

And there sure were clashes with the police at the very least:
Link.

[Kot]

Sorry for the second reply, Kot, but police certainly was mobilised and deployed to the capital. This may be due to the football match, but I doubt a match with a third league team would cause that much unrest. Even while commuting on today's evening I passed by twenty policemen with riot gear (armor, shields et cetera).
Link one.

Wybiórcza. Sry, no.

Link two.
Link three.

500 policemen? Oh my God so fucking much. I am not denying that Warsaw gets some help from surrounding cities that are acting less retarded and that there might be some movements in other cities since there are minor demonstrations there, but mobilization seems like a big word. Mobilization was during the World Youth Day when Police convoys were going around 24/7.

And there sure were clashes with the police at the very least:
Link.

Well, if an idiot jumps the Police then I'm not suprised. And I never really denied that there are none, but rather that it's implied that Police are literally as bad as it was in 89. Fucking laughable.

[Helgoland]

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

Pray tell, why is incitement to violence not protected then? Why can't I go marching down Main Street with a sign reading 'Kill all fags and niggers!'?

Once you protect anything at all - and there are things you will want to protect - you run into the same kind of 'This can be used to suppress anything' problem. Guess what - yes it can. The question is whether it will be.

[hector13]

You may want to edit the f- and n-words out of that post. While I appreciate you're trying to make a point, Toady has said he has no tolerance for those words regardless of context, and someone may report it just because.

[Helgoland]

The point would be lost without them - I'll take the risk.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

There's more than one interpretation of 'Free Speech', Eaglelander.

There's really not. Either you're legally insulated from the mob hysteria of the human tribe or you aren't. Certainly I've seen you go on enough about how this or that "puts someone outside society" (which is a line that can be used to justify suppressing anything) to get some insight as to why the German government does many of the things it does.

The People's Republic of China constitutionally protects free speech as well, so long as it respects Chinese culture, the Communist party, and the PRC's political figures. Protecting what you want to have protected is near-universal, only in some of this planet's most dystopian corners is it dangerous to be a loyalist.

Pray tell, why is incitement to violence not protected then? Why can't I go marching down Main Street with a sign reading 'Kill all fags and niggers!'?

Once you protect anything at all - and there are things you will want to protect - you run into the same kind of 'This can be used to suppress anything' problem. Guess what - yes it can. The question is whether it will be.

Well, for one thing, you could do that in the US. Back when they weren't 50% FBI plants the KKK held rallies pretty regularly, and were even defended by the ACLU. Incitement isn't some vague desire to see a genocide committed, it's something specific and credible, and what's illegal about it isn't the speech but the same reason conspiracy to murder is illegal. (i.e. "Kill Group X" is not incitement, directing a mob to kill a specific person is what's incitement) The only reasonable limitation of free speech comes from intersection with other harms, not any harm caused by speech itself.

Your protective standard of "what's acceptable for society" is an inherently conforming one. You don't have to prove anything physical in Germany, just that one advocates something that is extremely out of the norm. Once given that power in any context, it can be reapplied however the state wishes. Hence why Germany now bans clown costumes, flag burning and has a left-wing opposition that is suddenly against freedom of press. And will soon be legally dictating what women are allowed to wear, if the new and improved alt-right version of Merkel gets her way. A standard of "all speech is acceptable and you must demonstrate an immediate coinciding cause for it to be otherwise" is clearly more robust.

I've said this to you before, but I can only fucking imagine what horrors would be perpetuated over here if the Republican party thought like most European governments seem to. It's bad enough that Trump seems to be in a similar vein of thought, what with his comments about flag burning and libel.

[martinuzz]

I wouldn't call Merkel's plan to ban face-covering niqabs and burkas alt-right. Feminist, perhaps, or egalitarian, but not alt-right.

[Rolepgeek]

It's egalitarian  to tell women what they're allowed to wear? Especially targeted at a specific subgroup of women?

I'm sorry, did I miss something here? Or did someone else miss the point of egalitarianism/feminism?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[smjjames]

Because this transcends multiple threads: The Russian ambassador to Turkey got assassinated.

[TempAcc]

Srs biz.

^{inb4 people say its a putinistic conspiracy to heighten the tension around the syria issue.}

[smjjames]

Russian sources are saying the assassin was a Salafist Islamist, who shouted 'This is for Aleppo' as well as the old favourite 'Allahu Ackbar' during the attack.

A sad reminder that despite the recent narrative of Putin being behind all the evils in the world, we share a very serious common enemy with Russia; radical Islam.

That's Russian sources, lets see what other sources say that the assassin was. But yes, there is a common enemy. We had to made a similar alliance of convenience during WWII.

[smjjames]

Pretty sure the PKK (the Turkish Kurd group) are non-salafist.

[TempAcc]

Err, pretty sure there are non salafist radicals, the whole "lol its all the salafists' fault" is kinda conspiracy theory tier. Salafists are fundamentalist radicals, yes, but terrorists in general come from all branches of islam. Its also kinda hilarious how people go "salafists aren't muslim guyse". Yea, and westboro baptists aren't christians, either, sure.