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[martinuzz]

Apparently Poland already had a queen: In the 17th century, the Polish King Jan Kazimierz declared that the holy virgin Mary would henceforth be the queen of Poland.

Sounds a bit Freudian, thinking on that. So if Maria is Queen, and Jesus is King, he must have married his mother like Oedipus. Eww. The perv.

[Kot]

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm, which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.



Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

[smjjames]

Spoiler: long post on the history of Poland (click to show/hide)

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm, which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.

Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

Lol, it's okay.

[Silverthrone]

Could be worse. A shadow of a great, external threat is preferable to watching your country effectively rot down around you from the inside. Helplessly, because the counter-rotters would be liable to just burn it instead. One of these days, I will read the newspaper and rupture a major blood vessel out of sheer frustration.

[martinuzz]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Eh. Stabat Mater, Mater Nostra, Polonia.
Mary was considered the Queen of the Poland since long, long before that.
Proably, the best known time was when Polish knights sang Bogurodzica (Literally, Mother of God) under Grunwald/Tannenberg. It worked out pretty well, and it's considered the first (Netherlands supposedly have the first national anthem at 1568, despite Grunwald taking place in 1410) anthem (carmen patrium - song of the fatherland) of Poland, sung at the crowning of Polish kings and before all battles.
There is a second anthem, possibly even earlier, this time in Latin, Gaude Mater Polonia which means "Rejoice, Mother Poland" which also signifies that the concept of "motherland" (I honestly can't use both this term and fatherland without instantly thinking of WW2 Russians/Germans, fuck) is somehow interlocked with the concept of Queen Mother of Poland. Which is what it actually is, so please stop insulting both Christianity, Poland and the rest. Christ may be the King, but Queen Mary is... Poland, somehow. Hard to explain.

It was even earlier than that. The Christianization of Poland during 966 was special due to the fact it came to us through marriage and not by sword. It is a common theme in old songs and poetry, that, to quote, "Woman has brought us the cross", which is why Mary was always considered the Queen and protector of Poland. This is actually a quote from Polish Origins Psalm, which I belive has not been translated anywhere. It's a great explanation of Polish romantism. Inflated past, shitty present and a hope for the greatest future.

It was further established when the "Black Madonna of Częstochowa" saved the sanctuary of Jasna Góra from Swedish deluge, supposedly by direct action, which is why she got crowned as Queen of Poland by Jan Kazimierz. The icon still is in the sanctuary, with crown and whatnot. One of few relics that have not been stolen by either Swedes, partitioners or even Nazis who were supposedly too scared to touch it. It's one of the three miraculous icons of Poland, the other one being in Ostra Brama sanctuary in Wilno, Lithuania and the third one, the "Our Lady of Sorrows, Queen of Poland" in Licheń basillica.

As I said, this is often mentioned in Polish poetry. The Song of Bar Confederates says that Poles are Christs orderlies and servants of Mary, the "God's Corps". That we cannot die, that not even the "armies flying on dragons" will scare us and that we will do our duty. The Polish messianism is actually a very, very prominient theme in Polish culture, that Poland is the "Christ of the Nations". This had a very significant impact on Polish... world view. This is why Poles, at least before the meat mincer of post war, were ridiculously fucking stubborn. Poland is a funny thing, you see. We have been always in state of constant dying, but for this exact reason, we refuse to. This is why Poles charged like madmen at the machineguns. This is why, despite being crushed utterly under various foreing influences, to the point when speaking a single Polish word was punished by instant death sentence, we managed to retain our culture. This is why "Poland has been the source of trouble for past 500 years", per words of Stalin. This is why we had the Deluge.  This is why we had partitions. This is why, for hundreds of years Poles spread across the world. This is why we had both World Wars that hit Poland (France proably had it worse in the first one, but still, almost all of Eastern Front took place on Polish soil and the greatest national tragedy of the time was the fact that Poles fought against Poles, as we were split amongst all sides of the war) insanely hard. This is why we got sold by the West. This is why we had Communism. This is why we still fucking stand.
Polish Messianism implies that Poland has always been a "Shield of the West" and that we had a "civilizing mission" at the east. After all, we had heavenly help, how could we not be the "choosen people"? It even got worse after almost two hundred years old prophercy-poem came true and we got a Slavic pope, even worse, a POLISH Slavic pope. Our whole history screams at us that on the third day after our death, we will rise up from the grave and save the world. That we will be the greatest...
Well, it's been a while. How exactly does our glorious Mother Poland count her days? Of course, we may not have really died yet but that brings the chilling realization that the worst is yet to come.

This of course, has bad sides. After all, we're the martyr nation. We are always good. The others are bad. With this national image, it's absolutely impossible that Polish people could do bad things to others... obviously.

Fuck, this got longer than I expected, got myself derailed and now the Polish nationalism is unbearable in this post. Post Winged Hussars to help me with my raging erection over how amazing my country is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE

[Kot]

Sadly, we aren't immune to that either. The Polish nationalism is slowly picking up again, but after the war Poland was... in bad shape, let's say.
It was actually a master move by Stalin. First, majority of Polish upper class was killed by either Nazis (_{^{AUSCHWITZ KURWA!}}) or Soviets (_{^{KATYŃ KURWAA!}}) and the promising young people usually died in various uprisings (_{^{WARSZAWA KURWAAA!!}}).
Then, we had half of our country cut and given a bit of German clay. Various resettlement ensued now. Poland was fucked in ass by not getting any war reparations, and we were made to look at Germany as our eternal enemy, instead of Russia. Then, we had our culture repressed even more than we ever did. Seriously, Soviets did better job at this than Kulturkampf, Imperial Russia, Nazis and everyone else ever.

But, as I said, we're picking up again. It varies from the week to week, but things are slowly but noticeably getting better (if you told a Pole 30 years ago that Poland is going to be about the same as any western country when it comes to development (I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT WE HAVE INTERNET AND SHIT), he would laugh his ass off and tell you to write fantasy books). I have my own snowflake theories on how Poland could get unfucked, but those are mine and are proably shit. In any case, Poland not getting cucked depends on three factors:
1. We need to work with Germans, which, as opposed to Russians, can be reasoned with.
2. We need to be allied with America, which gets us in a comfortable enough position to not get rolled over... but that might be hard these days.
3. We need to work against Russia. Russia is literally the biggest threat, but also proably the biggest chance for Poland. Sufficently threatened Baltics and other post-Soviet states might consider that accepting Polish freedoms (of course, more in line of close CONSENSUAL (we're here to save the day, not blast it to hell) alliance rather than becoming Poland, we're past that) and whatnot might be better idea than getting nommed by Russia... again.
Of course, we still have internal problems to fully sort out, but if Putin continues to Putin things (Like suspiciously tanned bulky "local indigenous peoples" with military behaviour, Russian equipment and asian features) where they don't belong our safest bet will be to do what we did always - be a shield to the West, bring civilization to the East, and hope like hell that this fucking goddamn time we won't be sold by our allies. (_{^{JAŁTA KURWAAA!!!}})
Oh, and also hope that Muslim takeover of Europe will prove to be a meme in the end. Would be a very ironic and somehow repetetive to protect Germany only to get backstabbed by Sharia Union.

Partially makes me want for this Polandball to come true and make the crazy dudes down south realize that there is a reason why  Europeans were the dominant power for looong, looong time.

ITT: Nationalist ramblings of a deranged Pole. Also, muffled shouts can be heard off in the distance.

[smjjames]

Well, if Trump has his way, he'll let Putin waltz over. Though we still have to wait and see who he picks for Defense Secretary and Secretary of State as that'll likely influence Trumps quantum state of opinion on NATO.

[Silverthrone]

Hear, hear. In regards to islamism, I can report that things are slowly inching the right way. For one, there are a lot of very harmful sentiments that used to dominate but are now in decline. A few odd years ago, there was an idea that victims of islamic terrorism had to have "earned" it in some way or another, and that a few deaths here and there was "owed" to them for the past actions of mean old Europe. That they were harmless, would eventually integrate, and all would be lovely for as long as no one provoked them. While it did not dominate, that sentiment was quite strong. This year, though, it has practically blown away. You cannot get away with insinuating that ordinary citizens in Europe killed by jihadists must have been asking for it, not in the same way.

There has been a change in the climate overall, lately. Things that used to be unthinkable, unspeakable, if you valued your career, can be stated to a very different sort of response. Immigration, the asylum system, the borders, the rule of law, a lot of subjects that were very difficult to talk about except from a certain angle. I mean, you can even discuss the nation state as something other than a stupid old dinosaur that should die so that we can all become world citizens, free of borders in a global society, etc., in a way that would have been impossible two years ago.
For a long while, politicians, officials and opinion makes has been in horror of expressing or doing anything, anything at all, that could be seen as beneficial to the nationalists, running their errands, accidentally helping their agenda, anything. Jihadism has been a problem for a long time, but nothing concrete was done, and the problem ignored, because it'd be difficult and unpopular and tie them close to a political pariah. Even that attitude is, albeit slowly, blowing away. Not without a fight, to be sure. The idea of there being no problem at all, and it all being agitation from the nationalists to sucker in the plebs (we could call the idea the great Golden Kebab-Calf) just isn't standing up to reality any more.

To bring this post of mine back on the topic (and on that Poland ball), I agree. People of all sorts are far too quick to assume that the whole of Europe would fall in an afternoon to some fifty thousand odd violent, fanatical bandits. Europe as a whole has been through a lot worse, and a lot of it was in ruins the last century. If nothing else, islamist aggression is hardly a novelty (of course, only crusades count towards your bad, horrible awful country score. Invading Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Russia, the Balkans etc. does not), and I find it unlikely that the nappyheads from Daesh or similar will ever be able to shell the gates of Vienna.

[Kot]

Hear, hear. In regards to islamism, I can report that things are slowly inching the right way. For one, there are a lot of very harmful sentiments that used to dominate but are now in decline. A few odd years ago, there was an idea that victims of islamic terrorism had to have "earned" it in some way or another, and that a few deaths here and there was "owed" to them for the past actions of mean old Europe. That they were harmless, would eventually integrate, and all would be lovely for as long as no one provoked them. While it did not dominate, that sentiment was quite strong. This year, though, it has practically blown away. You cannot get away with insinuating that ordinary citizens in Europe killed by jihadists must have been asking for it, not in the same way.

That's how Poles see west as of right now. You seemed completly fine with that, tbh.

There has been a change in the climate overall, lately. Things that used to be unthinkable, unspeakable, if you valued your career, can be stated to a very different sort of response. Immigration, the asylum system, the borders, the rule of law, a lot of subjects that were very difficult to talk about except from a certain angle. I mean, you can even discuss the nation state as something other than a stupid old dinosaur that should die so that we can all become world citizens, free of borders in a global society, etc., in a way that would have been impossible two years ago.
For a long while, politicians, officials and opinion makes has been in horror of expressing or doing anything, anything at all, that could be seen as beneficial to the nationalists, running their errands, accidentally helping their agenda, anything. Jihadism has been a problem for a long time, but nothing concrete was done, and the problem ignored, because it'd be difficult and unpopular and tie them close to a political pariah. Even that attitude is, albeit slowly, blowing away. Not without a fight, to be sure. The idea of there being no problem at all, and it all being agitation from the nationalists to sucker in the plebs (we could call the idea the great Golden Kebab-Calf) just isn't standing up to reality any more.

>Nationalism is bad
I pity the western world for they do not have the perfect messianistic nationalism of "we're better so we're going to save the world and everyone can live in peace" but instead think of it as "we're b etter so we're going to exterminate everyone else so we can live in peace" like some Nazis or something. Being a muslim, black, white, gay, whatever is okay as long as you keep it in your pants and be nice to other people.
If you don't keep it in your pants and aren't nice to other people, you get BTFO.

To bring this post of mine back on the topic (and on that Poland ball), I agree. People of all sorts are far too quick to assume that the whole of Europe would fall in an afternoon to some fifty thousand odd violent, fanatical bandits. Europe as a whole has been through a lot worse, and a lot of it was in ruins the last century. If nothing else, islamist aggression is hardly a novelty (of course, only crusades count towards your bad, horrible awful country score. Invading Spain, Italy, France, Greece, Russia, the Balkans etc. does not), and I find it unlikely that the nappyheads from Daesh or similar will ever be able to shell the gates of Vienna.

I'd rather not take the chances. The radical islamists have proven to be horribly underestimated before and might continue to do so. They have an idea which means they have the will to fight, but they aren't stupid. They are ingenious so they build weapons rivaling those of modern armies in a cave, with a box of scraps. They are literally recruiting people from the whole world that had no ties to fanatical Islam before. Daesh even have an online magazine in multitude of languages (Dabiq? I think that's what it's called) which makes all those retards go to them and become "ISIS brides" or whatthefuck was it again. They're scary, they're actually pretty ambigious and the closest thing to Nazis when it comes to being hated. Maybe we will get an Muslim-wide shame-fest like we did with Germany, eh?
Well, as they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And Europe is much different these days. After all, last time we had to save Europes ass at Vienna and look how it worked out for us. Will the Winged PL-01 Concepts come to your help this time?

[Silverthrone]

That's how Poles see west as of right now. You seemed completly fine with that, tbh.

Well, that is and was bollocks, beginning to end. It's a shame that it took recent events to highlight it. Of course, the "asking for it" arguement is usually a bloody revolting one, and this is not an exception.

>Nationalism is bad
I pity the western world for they do not have the perfect messianistic nationalism of "we're better so we're going to save the world and everyone can live in peace" but instead think of it as "we're b etter so we're going to exterminate everyone else so we can live in peace" like some Nazis or something. Being a muslim, black, white, gay, whatever is okay as long as you keep it in your pants and be nice to other people.
If you don't keep it in your pants and aren't nice to other people, you get BTFO.

Nazism is one reason, the tally of the colonial era and what that did is another, the Great War is a third... I'd say there is reason to be suspicious about nationalism, or at least "nationalism". Of course, considering it poisonous in its entirety is a very bad idea, and even more so is creating this kind of binary climate where everything that isn't aligned against it is a dangerous motion for it. That equation seem to go "in favour for tighter border control -> nationalist sentiment -> therefore is nationalist -> nationalism is bad, want secret police, labour camps, wars -> person in favour of tighter border control is nationalist and bad or running their errands, thus also bad and/or stupid".

I'd rather not take the chances. The radical islamists have proven to be horribly underestimated before and might continue to do so. They have an idea which means they have the will to fight, but they aren't stupid. They are ingenious so they build weapons rivaling those of modern armies in a cave, with a box of scraps. They are literally recruiting people from the whole world that had no ties to fanatical Islam before. Daesh even have an online magazine in multitude of languages (Dabiq? I think that's what it's called) which makes all those retards go to them and become "ISIS brides" or whatthefuck was it again. They're scary, they're actually pretty ambigious and the closest thing to Nazis when it comes to being hated. Maybe we will get an Muslim-wide shame-fest like we did with Germany, eh?
Well, as they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And Europe is much different these days. After all, last time we had to save Europes ass at Vienna and look how it worked out for us. Will the Winged PL-01 Concepts come to your help this time?

It's not a matter of doing nothing, of course. I just think that Europe is not quite as completely Doomed^tm as a lot of people seem to think. Yes, they are a very resourceful movement, but as of now, they have managed to hold full control of a practically lawless area that has been in a long power vacuum. Knocking over a western nation state would be a very different matter. It'd require a united ultra-islamist power block throughout the middle east in sufficient shape to launch invasions, or at the very least the full support of every single muslim in the west (who'd need to be armed and commanded), neither of which is very likely at all.
They can, and will, continue to cause damage, horrible damage, but it's not likely they will hoist flags off the Reichstag anytime soon, until something very significant changes. Something on the level of them joining an alliance with the Martians.
That is, of course, not a reason to not fight them with all means available.

[Sheb]

Current growth of Muslim population is one %age point per decade. At this rythm, France would get a majority muslim population in... 2440?

[Sergarr]

Given what we know about Islamic attitudes toward homosexuality even in developed countries,

It's actually a bit more involved than that. From what I know, even in those "less-developed" countries, attitudes towards these things differ radically between the urbanized population and the more rural folks (most of whom still practice such "wonderful" things like child marriage, which btw is now getting legalized by Erdogan's party - amazing to think that just a few years ago, Turkey was thought to be an example of a good Muslim country and a potential EU candidate).

The problem here is that, obviously, the urban people, being generally more well-off, are less likely to be in condition where they would want to emigrate to other countries. And while in the past times, they were the only ones who could afford long-distance trips, but now even the countryside folks can get in on the ride to Europe.

Strong border control still works at thwarting the flow, though, despite what the Elite Liberals might have said a few years ago.

[martinuzz]

There seems to be a trend that while the new generations in 'lesser developed countries' are trending progressive, the same generations (the children and grandchildren of migrants) in Europe are trending conservative. It's like what I posted about a week or two ago (don't remember which thread), where in Morocco, a rainbow parade was held to protest the detention of two girls for kissing each other, with success, while in the Netherlands, LGBT tolerance amongst Moroccan youth is at an all time low. It's a worrisome trend.

That being said, it might not be representative for the entire region. Morocco is one of the more progressive countries there overall.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Hatred of the status quo, probably. In Morocco you can imagine putting an end to all the religiously-fueled bullshit that I'm sure is just as stocked with hypocrisy as everywhere else in the world. In the Netherlands you can imagine Islam as an ideal and thing of purity since the lack of actual establishment means there's no reality to deal with.

[Sergarr]

Hatred of the status quo, probably. In Morocco you can imagine putting an end to all the religiously-fueled bullshit that I'm sure is just as stocked with hypocrisy as everywhere else in the world. In the Netherlands you can imagine Islam as an ideal and thing of purity since the lack of actual establishment means there's no reality to deal with.

Yeah, that's one of the more important factors, as evident by comparison between Germany's current electoral map:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

and Germany's post-WW2 occupation-country territory map:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see, nationalists are popular in Soviet-occupied areas, and socialists are popular in British-occupied areas. Pro-Atlanticism Merkel is, weirdly enough, popular not only in French, but in USA occupation areas, too, which bucks the trend, but Americans are, as always, a bit of a special case.