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[martinuzz]

I was replying to Sheb but I do not understand how you translate what I wrote to "I'm okay with it for no reason, but it's wrong because he does it for religious reason". You must have misread what I wrote.

Let me try and rephrase.
If the guy says "I am not allowed to shake hands with women because of my religion, but I don't want to discriminate, so I've decided to shake no hands at all",
I'll be like "Great! Cool! You get your religious freedom to not touch a woman, and woman get their freedom to not be discriminated. Good solution, since there's no human right saying anyone has a right to get their hand shaken. Welcome to the club of people who put some effort into thinking about living together with different cultures. I'd high-five, but well, yer, erm."

[Sheb]

hector: Foreign Minister.

[Loud Whispers]

I was replying to Sheb but I do not understand how you translate what I wrote to "I'm okay with it for no reason, but it's wrong because he does it for religious reason". You must have misread what I wrote.
Let me try and rephrase.
If the guy says "I am not allowed to shake hands with women because of my religion, but I don't want to discriminate, so I've decided to shake no hands at all",
I'll be like "Great! Cool! You get your religious freedom to not touch a woman, and woman get their freedom to not be discriminated. Good solution, since there's no human right saying anyone has a right to get their hand shaken. Welcome to the club of people who put some effort into thinking about living together with different cultures. I'd high-five, but well, yer, erm."

Ah, so you'd be ok with him shaking no one's hands regardless of belief as opposed to only women

By this same metric, would the teachers boycotting all their students instead of singling out the Muslim student be morally superior for spiting all of their students because one didn't want to shake their hands?

[martinuzz]

Ah, so you'd be ok with him shaking no one's hands regardless of belief as opposed to only women

By this same metric, would the teachers boycotting all their students instead of singling out the Muslim student be morally superior for spiting all of their students because one didn't want to shake their hands?

I don't see how those cases would share a common metric. They are completely different things. No comparison possible.

But if you want my opinion on that, like I wrote before, I think the teachers were in their right to protest (since the women were being discriminated), but the form of protest they chose (a boycot) also affected the rest of the class, which I don't approve of.

So in answer to your question, no I don't think that would be morally superior. Punishing the collective for the deeds of an individual is unjust. It's something the nazis did a lot. Publicly killing random people because the resistance stole some food.

[hector13]

That was quite the Godwin.

[misko27]

So in answer to your question, no I don't think that would be morally superior. Punishing the collective for the deeds of an individual is unjust. It's something the nazis did a lot. Publicly killing random people because the resistance stole some food.

I'm here to say yes, they did this, but their favorite thing to do was a little more specific:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Relevant part quoted:

For that reason 100 people were shot for each killed German soldier, and for each wounded 50, mainly communists, bandits and their siders, 2300 altogether. Every similar case, even if it were only sabotage, will be dealt with the same severity.
Chief of local command

Of course where they could not find enough Jews or communists, male civilians were used.

[Helgoland]

Taking hostages like that is one of those more brutal acts of warfare that I find hard to condemn wholesale. Sure, it's innocents being killed, but in defense against unlawful ways of conducting warfare, and (if you go about it with more decency than the Nazis) with proper warning and proportion.

If applied fairly (well, "fairly") and consistently by all sides, it could prove a powerful deterrent against breaking the laws of warfare in the way that partisans often do. The only proper argument against it hinges on the - quite frankly artificial - distinction between soldier's lives and civilians' lives. If killing a civilian means two soldiers or however many may stay alive, why not make the trade? Why is killing a soldier for military gain morally acceptable, but killing civilians is not? This becomes even more absurd when you consider that accepting collateral damage is perfectly legal and legitimate in warfare, as long as it stays within reasonable bounds.

For the record: The criteria I am imagining certainly are not met by the massacres conducted by the Nazis, and I do not mean to exculpate them.

[Loud Whispers]

Depends on whether you're conducting total war or not innit

[martinuzz]

Fuck shit. A truck ran into a crowd in Nice just now. The mayor of Nice Twittered there's dozens of dead, and there's reports of a firefight between the police and the truck's drivers.

[martinuzz]

The truck, with police behind a tree

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Loud Whispers]

Fuck shit. A truck ran into a crowd in Nice just now. The mayor of Nice Twittered there's dozens of dead, and there's reports of a firefight between the police and the truck's drivers.

What's the betting it's some ISIS fucksticks?

Who knows

[martinuzz]

That article is paywalled.
French authorities told BFMTV that there's at least 100 dead. Public celebrating 14th july has been struck by mass panic.

[martinuzz]

The timing couldn't be worse for Hollande. Just today, he gave an interview with BFMTV in which he promised that the National State of Emergency which has been in effect since 13th of november last year will absolutely and certainly be lifted on the 26th of july.

I'm quite sure he'll give a new interview tomorrow saying he'll extend it after all

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/live-vrachtwagen-rijdt-in-nice-in-op-menigte-tientallen-doden-misschien-100-gewonden~a4340121/

[Loud Whispers]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-crash-idUSKCN0ZU2K7
It's being treated as a terror attack

[martinuzz]

Goddamnit.

Don't watch if you have a weak stomach.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)