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[Antsan]

Why does it mean that we're giving up our own culture? I am really wanting for some description of how that would happen. Only because I'm letting people live near me and don't expect them to act as I do doesn't mean that I have to take on their culture.

East London was where Cockney culture was born, now it is gone, and in Whitechapel you'll find English isn't even the most common market language anymore - all done in 10 years of multicultural experimentation when our progressives sought massive migration. Completely pointless, but done anyways, and it's a simple case of numbers. That and I also think European culture is mainly based around destroying European culture, whilst most migrant cultures Europe is inviting are far stronger - if Europeans weren't spineless, they wouldn't be inviting stronger men to pay their pensions for them

Oh, forgot that one.

Not concentrating immigrants at one place might be a good idea to prevent this from happening. But of course taking immigrants in at all is The Worst Idea Ever for a surprising amount of people, so that kind of contributes to the problem of less places to spread immigrants to.
The people most afraid of immigrants being a problem seem to make sure that the problems associated with mass immigration really take full effect.

[Sonlirain]

also clearly all those uzbek/turkmen/buryat/kalmyk/tatars/muslims immigrants and natives in Russia living within close communities have caused it to collapse a long time ago due to their Bad Cultural Influences™ and formed a Muslim Caliphate from its remains

it is obvious, really, that the corrupting touch of evil muslim hordes is unstoppable by anything except bullets and flamethrowers

Russia is pretty big and rather good at shutting up dissenters tho.
If bullets and flamethrowers if needed.

1) Don't have anything to say for USA case?
2) I feel that you're missing the point. The point here being "most people of other cultures are not murder-death cultists bent on destroying your country, and indiscriminately prejudicing against them is detrimental for everyone".

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

1) USA has enough guns and the castle doctrine so it's literally the last country i'd worry about.
2) Never said other cultures are evil because evil and good are cultural constructs. They are however different. Sometimes so different that co-existence can be hard to pretty much impossible even with initially good intentions from both sides.
Russia has the benefit of having plenty pf space so groups that don't get along with one another don't necessarily have to be anywhere near one another.

Yeah conquering Chechnya was such a not Balkan thing to do. No gas. Just tanks and bombs.
We had Chechen refugees here after that over here but from the looks of it you managed to finally beat them into submission after the second Chechen war.

Word

The Ethnix has arrived. I shall retreat from the battlefield knowing it's in capable hands.
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/ethnix.htm

[Sergarr]

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

It was my understanding that Cossacks and colonists arriving in Siberia left something of a mark on the local populations, and while Tatars and other people the Russian Empire took over weren't just killed off (with a few exceptions, notably the Circassians) they weren't exactly tolerated either.

Okay, so I guess I'll just have to say it directly.

There was a great deal of cultural osmosis between Russia and all those indigenous cultures - for example, a big part of southern Cossack's culture is almost entire based around the Ciscassian culture - their clothing, their traditions, most of that shit was straight-up copied, with maybe some slight adaptations.

People from Urals and Stavropol, people from Nizhniy Novgorod, people from Moscow and St. Petersburg, people from Siberia and Far East - they all have their own little - and big - variations in terms of traditions and culture, stemming from the historical cultural osmosis and mutual assimilation with local population, to the extent that local dialects from one part of the country are almost unrecognisable to people in the other side.

And all these people are still considered - and consider themselves - as Russian as everyone else. Which should be impossible, according to Sonlirain - because he thinks that there are only two possible outcomes of introducing people of different cultures into your own - "our culture stays the same", or "they replace our culture with their own", with nothing in between.

That's the main gist of the point I was trying to make. Unlike Balkan states, who try to "preserve" their own cultures at maximum purity and, as a result, are a fractured mess, Russia does not try to preserve the mythical "cultural purity" at all costs (hell, "pure Russian" is like "pure American" - if you try to actually define it concretely, you'll fucking fail and this is why Russian ethnic nationalism is so dumb; like, none of these "hurr-durr, ethnic Russians!" people have any idea about how their own culture even works!), and thus it is not suffering from, you know, Balkanization.

[Orange Wizard]

Yeah but they're all sharia muslimists who eat babies

[Baffler]

There is a reason why Russia is not like Balkans, and it's not because we gassed everyone who was even a little bit different from ethnic Russian stereotype.

It was my understanding that Cossacks and colonists arriving in Siberia left something of a mark on the local populations, and while Tatars and other people the Russian Empire took over weren't just killed off (with a few exceptions, notably the Circassians) they weren't exactly tolerated either.

Okay, so I guess I'll just have to say it directly.

There was a great deal of cultural osmosis between Russia and all those indigenous cultures - for example, a big part of southern Cossack's culture is almost entire based around the Ciscassian culture - their clothing, their traditions, most of that shit was straight-up copied, with maybe some slight adaptations.

People from Urals and Stavropol, people from Nizhniy Novgorod, people from Moscow and St. Petersburg, people from Siberia and Far East - they all have their own little - and big - variations in terms of traditions and culture, stemming from the historical cultural osmosis and mutual assimilation with local population, to the extent that local dialects from one part of the country are almost unrecognisable to people in the other side.

And all these people are still considered - and consider themselves - as Russian as everyone else. Which should be impossible, according to Sonlirain - because he thinks that there are only two possible outcomes of introducing people of different cultures into your own - "our culture stays the same", or "they replace our culture with their own", with nothing in between.

That's the main gist of the point I was trying to make. Unlike Balkan states, who try to "preserve" their own cultures at maximum purity and, as a result, are a fractured mess, Russia does not try to preserve the mythical "cultural purity" at all costs (hell, "pure Russian" is like "pure American" - if you try to actually define it concretely, you'll fucking fail and this is why Russian ethnic nationalism is so dumb; like, none of these "hurr-durr, ethnic Russians!" people have any idea about how their own culture even works!), and thus it is not suffering from, you know, Balkanization.

I'm not disputing any of that, just pointing out that the fact that elements of those cultures have been absorbed into Russian culture is about as academic to the original Circassians/Tatars/Native Siberians who got Cossack'd as the tobacco smoking and native loanwords absorbed into American English is to people like the Mohicans and Cherokee.

[Sergarr]

Ciscassians, okay, but Tatars and Native Siberians have not been wiped out to the same degree Native Americans were, to my knowledge. Tatars even have their own republic state, Tatarstan.

Speaking of Tatars, majority of them are Muslim. And Tatarstan has not started to "culturally conquer" the surrounding territories, contrary to what you'd expect if you believed the crap that the anti-immigration European folks talk about.

I don't even know what's the point of this discussion, since the main opponent here has directly admitted that they won't change their views on immigration, no matter what I say to them.

[Loud Whispers]

The Ethnix has arrived. I shall retreat from the battlefield knowing it's in capable hands.
http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/ethnix.htm

Oh shit, this is fucking awesome

Oh, forgot that one.
Not concentrating immigrants at one place might be a good idea to prevent this from happening. But of course taking immigrants in at all is The Worst Idea Ever for a surprising amount of people, so that kind of contributes to the problem of less places to spread immigrants to.
The people most afraid of immigrants being a problem seem to make sure that the problems associated with mass immigration really take full effect.

Antsan, you maintain that migration is impossible to stop thus it is not worth attempting to stop. How does this reconcile then with replacing culture if it could only be done by spreading migrants across the whole, something more difficult than stopping them from entering? If migration control is impossible - how is more migration control possible?

ur a fookin wite male m8

That was a strawman joke. I know, it was a bad one. Never had any problems with being white male, not even with people accusing me of exactly that. And that even when I am securely entrenched in a culture full of leftist political activism! Imagine that!

fookin wite males stealin my imaginations

i luv u man

Ciscassians, okay, but Tatars and Native Siberians have not been wiped out to the same degree Native Americans were, to my knowledge. Tatars even have their own republic state, Tatarstan.
Speaking of Tatars, majority of them are Muslim. And Tatarstan has not started to "culturally conquer" the surrounding territories, contrary to what you'd expect if you believed the crap that the anti-immigration European folks talk about.
I don't even know what's the point of this discussion, since the main opponent here has directly admitted that they won't change their views on immigration, no matter what I say to them.

Compare Central Asian Muslims with Afghan Muslims
Central Asian Muslims got Sovieted and before then Russianed
Afghans didn't

[Sheb]

Eleven German MPs of Turkish origin have been placed under police protection after death threats following the Armenian genocide recognition. Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab.

[Dorsidwarf]

Eleven German MPs of Turkish origin have been placed under police protection after death threats following the Armenian genocide recognition. Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab.

Link is in french, have a google translated (The shock, the horror) copy

The German Foreign Ministry has advised eleven German parliamentarians of Turkish origin to avoid traveling to Turkey for the time being, revealed Saturday Spiegel. These elected officials have received death threats after having voted for a resolution recognizing the Armenian Genocide by Ankara constesté, and were placed under police protection reports the BBC.

The German Foreign Ministry believes that their safety can not be guaranteed if they go to Turkey.

It was decided to expand their police escort after a meeting late Saturday between Berlin and federal police, says the Frankfurter Allgemeine in its Sunday edition.

A police spokesman declined to give details about the threats but said the measures were appropriate to ensure the security of politicians.

"Threats against members of Turkish origin are inaceptables," said the interior minister Thomas de Maiziere. "Security measures will be taken on."

    corrupted blood

One of the 11 elected the president of the environmental group, Cem Ozdemir, a Turkish-German who proposed the resolution to reconaitre genocide and who was the first received increased police protection this month after receiving threats of death.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that the 11 deputies of Turkish origin and supporting the resolution had "corrupted blood" after the vote.

The mayor of Ankara for its part appointed the parliamentary network on Twitter and felt that they had "stabbed in the back" the Turkish population. A statement that was shared many times by Turkish nationalists, some of whom have made death threats against these German politicians.

Armenians say more than 1.5 million of them perished in horrific circumstances in 1915, during the fall of the Ottoman Empire during the First World War. Turkey minimizes the number of victims and rejects the term genocide.

Twenty countries, including Belgium, France, Italy and Russia, have recognized that there was an Armenian genocide.

[Sonlirain]

Ah the logic of primitive people.

Erdogan had called them "tainted blood" and said their blood should be tested in a lab.

You know you are onto something special as a nation when your leader mixes his occult statements with modern terminology.
Gee
I better join the Jehovah's Witness to make sure no hospital transfuses tainted blood into me.
Lest i want to become a moderate liberal under its influence and start recognizing non Jewish genocides 100 years late and pat myself on the back for it.

[Sheb]

To be fair, this whole "recognize genocide" is a rather new thing. I guess it really never occured to people before that you need some official acts to recognize an historical fact.

[Sonlirain]

True i guess. There are asshats denying the existence of death camps even now when the Jewish genocide was recognized from the very beginning.

Also a funny thing i saw in Wikipedia.

An important consequence of the Balkan Wars was also the mass expulsion of Muslims (known as muhacirs) from the Balkans. Beginning in the mid-19th century, hundreds of thousands of Muslims, including Turks, Circassians, and Chechens, were expelled or forced to flee from the Caucasus and the Balkans (Rumelia) as a result of the Russo-Turkish wars and the conflicts in the Balkans. Muslim society in the empire was incensed by this flood of refugees. A journal published in Constantinople expressed the mood of the times: "Let this be a warning ... O Muslims, don't get comfortable! Do not let your blood cool before taking revenge".[37]:86 As many as 850,000 of these refugees were settled in areas where the Armenians were resident from the period of 1878–1904. The muhacirs resented the status of their relatively well-off neighbors and, as historian Taner Akçam and others have noted, the refugees came to play a pivotal role in the killings of the Armenians and the confiscation of their properties during the genocide.

*makes an annoying statement about the refugee crisis*
History likes to... *something something*

Oh seriously all this time i thought Turkey and Turks were a relatively modern nation bit I got proven so wrong i almost feel stupid for it.

[MarcAFK]

This thread isn't locked yet? Ptw the bants.

[Antsan]

It isn't locked yet again yet.

[Sonlirain]

Politics amirite?