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[Sergarr]

Well, you see, the only other alternative is to get domestic banks to influence your elections, and that's, like, bad.

The third variant, self-financed parties, is 1) not usually possible, and 2) tend to result in complete uncompromising madmen coming to power in the party (in modern USA's elections, for example, the current self-financed candidates (which in conditions of a two-party systems, are mini-parties in themselves, and so can be used for purpose of this analogy) are Trump and Sanders, which are both incredibly bad in new and exciting ways)

Let me ask you this, would you like it if, say, American banks, were financing one of your presidential candidates?

They already do, more news at 11. Has been that way since the democracy in Russia begun, really. I mean, why do you think that "foreign agents" law was put into effect?

Also, neither Trump or Sanders are actually self funding. Sanders isn't a billionaire, but his funding comes from lots of small donations, grassroots donations pretty much. Trump isn't completely self funding (though he says he does), but his style of fundraising is similar to that of Sanders.

I thought it would be obvious in context, that I meant "self-funding" in a sense that there aren't any big investors, like banks, that can strongly influence them a la establishment candidates. Lots of small donators can't influence jack shit out of their donation target without a unifying organization structure, just like lots of small workers can't influence jack shit out of their job providers without a union.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: Looks like EU may impose personal sanctions on Putin (click to show/hide)

[Sergarr]

So is Hungary's veto going to last, or will this 'deal' with Turkey get pushed through anyway?

Of course not, it's fucking EU. They'll just make them vote again and again, until they vote "the right way".

[Helgoland]

That's hardly an EU-specific phenomenon. Them 'voting "the right way"' will have to be reached by finding a workable compromise - it's just standard politics, nothing more.

[Loud Whispers]

That's hardly an EU-specific phenomenon. Them 'voting "the right way"' will have to be reached by finding a workable compromise - it's just standard politics, nothing more.

EU - because China does it too

[Loud Whispers]

Stunning documentary footage of the inner workings of Moscow
And reminder that Russian grannies will liberate corrupt eurovision

[Sheb]

Yeah, because in every democracy, as soon as someone says no, you're not allowed to try to make a compromise, you just have to drop everything.

[Sergarr]

Yeah, because in every democracy, as soon as someone says no, you're not allowed to try to make a compromise, you just have to drop everything.

Wait, EU is a democracy? (I assume you're referencing the EU vote situation)

[Sheb]

Ok, let's clear things up: A) You can't really compare vote by countries in the council and vote by referendum. For starter, it's much easier to ask Orban 'What would it take for you to vote yes?' than to ask a whole people. Also you can't really just hope to change Orban's vote by making him voting again. And as much as I'd love to lock him in a room and starve him until he press the yes button that also liberate a sandwich, current EU treaties don't allow that.

B) Compromise is not a dirty word. If someone says no to A, so you offer him A' that gives him some concessions, and he agrees to it, it's fine. Even in the Irish case, they didn't simply re-vote on the exact same text, they got concessions (most notably keeping the 'one commissioneer per country' rule, which I don't like but do keep smaller country like Ireland more clout). Not to say the whole thing wasn't problematic for other reasons, but just setting fact straight.

C) The EU is not (yet) a country, so it's not a democracy, no. Not a dictatorship either. It's some ungodly abomination between an international organization, a trade area, a group of country and a country. I was comparing the process to what happen in democracies, because LW was comparing it to what happen in China. I mean, if Russia had manage that, Ireland would have voted 97% yes the first time. :p

[Loud Whispers]

"Ah, who is it dares interupt me in my progress?"
"Why 'tis I, little Johnny Bull, protecting a little spot. I clap my hands on, and damn me if you come any further, that's all!"

Top lel
Centuries later nothing's changed, don't touch my islands
Also love Napoleon's expression, just all "are you really doing this right now"

Ok, let's clear things up: A) You can't really compare vote by countries in the council and vote by referendum. For starter, it's much easier to ask Orban 'What would it take for you to vote yes?' than to ask a whole people. Also you can't really just hope to change Orban's vote by making him voting again. And as much as I'd love to lock him in a room and starve him until he press the yes button that also liberate a sandwich, current EU treaties don't allow that.

Democracy is hard, let's just remove constitutional limits to our Monarchs and call it a day

B) Compromise is not a dirty word. If someone says no to A, so you offer him A' that gives him some concessions, and he agrees to it, it's fine. Even in the Irish case, they didn't simply re-vote on the exact same text, they got concessions (most notably keeping the 'one commissioneer per country' rule, which I don't like but do keep smaller country like Ireland more clout). Not to say the whole thing wasn't problematic for other reasons, but just setting fact straight.

They rejected the Lisbon Treaty which surrendered their sovereignty via referendum, which was supposed to happen for all nations, but after France and the Netherlands rejected the EU Constitution via referendum the EU found it was smarter to simply bypass referendums altogether and solve "the Irish problem" by offering exclusions from the powers they took from them in the referendum they gave them when they voted for the answer they didn't like with a new EU Constitution that was by design unintelligible to laymen. That sounds like the same convoluted bullshit democracy China uses, where yeah you can vote all you like for the options we don't really tell you clearly are about and are all options we want or you don't vote at all, it's "your choice."

C) The EU is not (yet) a country, so it's not a democracy, no. Not a dictatorship either. It's some ungodly abomination between an international organization, a trade area, a group of country and a country. I was comparing the process to what happen in democracies, because LW was comparing it to what happen in China. I mean, if Russia had manage that, Ireland would have voted 97% yes the first time. :p

EU, twinned with China and Russia on democracy, with the added benefit of being above international law due to semantic magic

gj gg wp

[Dorsidwarf]

Loudwhispers, what is your opinion on Gibraltar and the referendum?

How do you feel about the fact that your name now shows up on predictive text on my iPhone?

[Loud Whispers]

Loudwhispers, what is your opinion on Gibraltar and the referendum?

The Spanish threatening to close their border with Gibraltar whilst they let in thousands of illegal migrants = priceless
Other than that I don't really mind what they do and if the Spanish try to invade then the Umayyad Caliphate of Britain shall prevail

How do you feel about the fact that your name now shows up on predictive text on my iPhone?

Pretty Malvinas really

[martinuzz]

Likely the kid will not go to jail (which I already said in my post concerning the incident, back when it had just happened). Which is a good thing, because child detention (at least detention in a regular jail) is in breach of international treaties on child rights, and because a minor can not be held fully accountable for his actions, from a pedagogic viewpoint. But I doubt there'll be no consequences at all. I don't know if Sweden has juvenile detention centers, or if they only have child psychiatric observation and treatment facilities (in the Netherlands we have both, with the line between them blurry), but I'm quite certain that the kid will have to go through the entire youth psychiatry circus until he's 18.

[ChairmanPoo]

In one of the corruption trials that is currently being held, one of the accused was found to have long conversations with the king of Spain over whatsapp, it came out recently. This is currently being investigated by the police.





... by which I mean they're currently investigating who actually leaked that, goes without saying.  Remember, the king of Spain cannot be held liable for anything. He's totally immune to prosecution, as per the constitution. 

[Loud Whispers]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/incest-and-necrophilia-should-be-legal-youth-swedish-liberal-peoples-party-a6891476.html

S W E D E N

I LOVE MY EUROPA

NUKE US NOW

It called for the repeal of several laws to make consensual sex between brothers and sisters aged over 15 legal, as well as allowing people to "bequeath" their bodies for intercourse after death without fearing the perpetrator would be prosecuted.
Ms Johnsson said: “You should get to decide what happens to your body after you die, and if it happens to be that someone wants to bequeath their body to a museum or for research, or if they want to bequeath to someone for sex, then it should be okay.”
It is not the first time similar proposals have been raised in Europe.
In 2014, the German Ethics Council also called for an end to the criminalisation of incest between siblings, after examining the case of a man who was jailed for having four children with his sister.
The council argued that the risk of disability in children was not sufficient to warrant a law putting couples in “tragic situations”, and that decriminalising incest would not fuel the spread of the “very rare” practice.

Yeah see this is what I'm talking about, this is why I support cultural enrichment