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[Shub-Nullgurath]

Sho', man. Not on a spreadsheet capable device right now (and other places to be besides) so I can't dig through and point out the specific bits you'd want to be looking at, but you can scrum around and check the breakdowns and more nuanced stuff yourself. You'll be happy to find unemployment rates cheerfully existing in the fields you're talking about and underemployment loitering around, too, and a larger range of data (both over time and in regards to students checked) than the useless crap that independent third party was pandering.

Have you checked out any of the statistics from the sites you're linking or what their methodology is?

As an example: What 2014/15 graduates did next

76% of all survey respondents were in employment. Of these employed leavers 59% were on permanent or open-ended contracts while 25% were on fixed-term contracts. 4% of employed leavers were self-employed, 3% were on zero-hours contracts, 2% on internships, and 1% were starting up their own business.

Now that would suggest that 24% were unemployed, but that's not the case because if you scroll down there's a chart that shows that only 4.6% are unemployed (keeping in mind this is NOT just STEM):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wouldn't it have made more sense to say "95% of all survey respondents are in employment or continuing education"?

The representation of the data (especially in table form) is awful, only matched by how they represent it in text. There's no way to interrogate it for meaningful assessments. They count being in study as being unemployed, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

TL;DR: Those statistics are a joke.

[Frumple]

You might want to actually dig through the data -- which does, in fact, have subject specific stuff in it -- instead of dismissing it in favor of something that thought data points on ten students over two years mushed together meant sod all. Or maybe you don't, I'unno. You do you.

[Shub-Nullgurath]

You might want to actually dig through the data -- which does, in fact, have subject specific stuff in it -- instead of dismissing it in favor of something that thought data points on ten students over two years mushed together meant sod all. Or maybe you don't, I'unno. You do you.

So you're saying 5% unemployment across ALL disciplines is too high?

They don't even report unemployment versus education except in that graph.

Did you just link a random website that you thought agreed with you?

[Frumple]

I linked one presuming you'd be able and willing to open and parse spreadsheet files, at least. Probably should remember that's asking a lot of people, some days

[Shub-Nullgurath]

I linked one presuming you'd be able and willing to open and parse spreadsheet files, at least. Probably should remember that's asking a lot of people, some days

So you didn't look at the statistics at all, then.

The statistics site you linked claims that there's a 20% "unemployment rate" across all disciplines and 10% in computing. If you then dig deeper it just turns out that they lump "continuing education" in with "unemployed" which is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, and not looking for work is ALSO unemployed which is also ridiculous.

The spreadsheets don't separate out the various types of employment / unemployment, they just lump it into "employed" or "unemployed".

But, hey, don't worry about it. Double down and claim that I'm the one who didn't look at the site that you linked.

[Frumple]

Mate, you're the one doubling down on claiming even that much isn't enough to prove you wrong. You were rolling with the position that the employment rates that uni was giving was representative of the field. Given how impeccably shit the data used to calculate those rates was, all it takes is a >0.00% unemployment rate to give you plain information that what that university used was either wrong or a notable statistical outlier, and even if you take the time to separate out the ones still in school, you end up over that. So... yeah. If you're going to be making a claim like that, you might want something better than those unistats numbers.

[Shub-Nullgurath]

Mate, you're the one doubling down on claiming even that much isn't enough to prove you wrong. You were rolling with the position that the employment rates that uni was giving was representative of the field. Given how impeccably shit the data used to calculate those rates was, all it takes is a >0.00% unemployment rate to give you plain information that what that university used was either wrong or a notable statistical outlier, and even if you take the time to separate out the ones still in school, you end up over that. So... yeah. If you're going to be making a claim like that, you might want something better than those unistats numbers.

Are you reading what I am typing?

Let me ask you some simple questions:
1. Is continuing education the same as being unemployed?
2. Is not looking for work the same as being unemployed?
3. Would you say STEM degrees have a lower rate of unemployment than the general population?

Just answer those.

[martinuzz]

Guys, this is going nowhere. Please continue your prolongued arguments in PM.

[Frumple]

Eh, sure. Wasn't particularly interested in chasing goalposts anyway, tbh.

[Sergarr]

Melenchon is rising quite rapidly in polls, while Hamon is nose-diving:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As a reminder, Melenchon is anti-NATO, anti-EU, and is also a communist.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

[Class Struggle Intensifies]

[hector13]

Similarly poor form to keep changing the position you're arguing, jump to erroneous conclusions, and outright lie, too. It takes two to tango...

In other football news, Leicester fans are drawing the ire of Madrid police.

PPE: as an aside to the French polls, British MP's claim the Brexit voter registration website was hacked.

The most salient point is made in the last four paragraphs:

The committee called on the government to set up a new Cyber Security Centre to monitor and contain potential attacks on UK elections and referendums - particularly foreign attempts to influence public opinion and disrupt the democratic process.

"The US and UK understanding of 'cyber' is predominantly technical and computer-network based," said the report.

"For example, Russia and China use a cognitive approach based on understanding of mass psychology and of how to exploit individuals.

"The implications of this different understanding of cyber-attack, as purely technical or as reaching beyond the digital to influence public opinion, for the interference in elections and referendums are clear," the report added.

Evidently the Western world is lagging behind in the social engineering stakes.

[Sergarr]

Some more news from France:

Fiscal Kombat: French presidential candidate Jean-Luc Melenchon stars in video game

Supporters of the far-left French presidential candidate Jean-Luc Melenchon have created a video game where players bash the rich.

In Fiscal Kombat the player roams the streets pretending to be Mr Melenchon as he battles against oligarchs and rival politicians.

The aim is to shake money from the rich to pay for Melenchon's policies.

The player's challenge is to get as much money as possible while avoiding the attempts of the rich to maul him to death.

Among the series of "bosses" that Melenchon must take on are former president Nicolas Sarkozy; the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde; the tax-evading politician Jerome Cahuzac; and the L'Oreal heiress Liliane Bettencourt.

Presidential rivals Emmanuel Macron and Francois Fillon must also be defeated.

According to Le Monde, the game was created by Melenchon supporters who met on the 18-25 chatroom of Jeuxvideo.com, a French gaming website.

It has since been fully embraced by the candidate himself, who has released a YouTube video of him playing the game.

"The hero of the game, it's me. I and the people playing my character fighting the oligarchs," Melenchon says in the video.

No wonder his rating is skyrocketing...

[LethalShade]

Melenchon is rising quite rapidly in polls, while Hamon is nose-diving:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As a reminder, Melenchon is anti-NATO, anti-EU, and is also a communist.

Frenchfag here. Nope, Mélenchon isn't really communist anymore. He has ties with the communist party but they really don't like each other.

And yeah, he's really popular with the youth because he's the only candidate that knows how the new media (Youtube, internet as whole) works.

[Arx]

Off-topic but it's not particularly obvious, the 'chan lingo of "xfag" is sometimes considered bigoted language because the Grand Toad doesn't always have time to look at all the context.