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[Loud Whispers]

I think you might have misunderstood the Turkey deal. It's a 1:1 tit for tat deal.

You misunderstand me, I'm not talking about the Turkey deal. If I thought the Turkey deal would've solved anything, I would've talked about it, as it is just increasing the problem whilst outsourcing Europe's border control to Turkey, which Erdogan finds hilarious. The end result will be everyone Europeans have sacrificed to maintain a noble image will have been sacrificed in vain as their cynical attempt at stemming mass immigration is entrusted to Erdogan, whilst their one objective at reducing mass immigration will fail with visa-free travel for Turkey going to make the open door Europe open wider.

For ever refugee we send back from Greece, one gets vetted in Turkey and sent to the EU. We're not seeing that yet because Turkey exploded in chaos not too long ago, plus the nescessary legal structure apparently still isn't poperly set up yet to process the asylum requests in Turkey.

You will never see it because the most powerful European leaders have never shown an interest in actually stemming unchecked migration, whilst opposing every leader that did so.

Besides that, the largest refugee stream is now coming in through Italy. The Turkey deal has been pretty effective in decreasing arrivals in Greece. There is no Turkey deal about Italy though.

Again, no source, but I know it's significant regardless. They're coming in through North Africa, so once more the argument is the same, replace Turkey with Morocco or Tunisia and it all remains the same. With one exception, in that there would be a military intervention needed in Libya to restore a government over Libya

[martinuzz]

(Moved from accidentally being in the non-EU thread)
Meanwhile in Poland, it is starting to look like a revolution could be gaining momentum.
For the second day in a row, opposition members are occupying the central hall of the parliament in Warsaw, in protest of the unconstitutional way the government pushed through the new national finances, and in protest of new laws restricting press freedom.

Yesterday the prime minister, and the leader of the PiS party found themselves locked inside the parliament, with members of opposition occupying the building, and thousands of protestors outside. It took the police all day and night to reach the entrance to parliament, using tear gass to disperse the masses, after which the prime minister and party leader left the area in a convoy of cars.

Not long after, the parliament's hall was re-occupied by members of 3 opposition parties. Journalist are welcome to go in and out, and can interview anyone. This will no longer be possible after 1st of januari, when the new press law will make independent journalist access to parliament extremely hard.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/leden-poolse-oppositie-bezetten-centrale-hal-parlement~a4436210/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/protesters-block-polands-parliament-as-political-crisis-escalates

[Kot]

>Revolution
Are you actually serious? This is fucking ridiculous at best, PO (the Civic Platform) is a laughing stock. They are the worst hypocrites I've yet seen.
I mean, the great protesters who protest the laws against press freedom literally attacked TV reporters. And the national finances? They are literally protesting taking away the pensions from retired UB (Communist Polish Secret Service) agents. The whole thing is attack on democratically elected government and opposition trying to force back their rule (which is literally what they're saying at this point) - there is a reason why PIS has majority now (I would like to remind that back when we had PO Prime Minister they had 2,35 mln wiretapped phones, and after it was leaked by independent press a lot of journalist taking part in it were arrested in their homes. If press started relasing something that wasn't liked by the government then they lost dotations and in general were fucked sideways by the government).

Also, it's nowhere as bad. While, yes, the media that is currently controlled by opposition (unthinkable few years ago) is spreading hysteria and it spills over to foreign countries (which, by the way, is the same as during the elections... when it was proven that 3/4th of those foreign reporters were actually PO shills). The thousands before the parliment? The members of PIS were literally walking out the main gate, there was about ~1,5 thousand people (that's pushing it, people are saying on twitter that it's 500 or so) at best, and the "spontaneous" demonstration has a stage with speakers. And the horrible rubber bullets and police brutality? Come the fuck on... And the occupation? The opposition is literally sitting in their chairs and taking photos of themselves. That's the occupation.

I mean, fuck, right, the PIS is not saints themselves, but compared to PO, KOD, and the rest they seem like it, and the whole overblown hype for POLAND IS FALLING OH MY GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING BREAKING THE CONSTITUTION shit is annoying at this point.

[SaberToothTiger]

*snip*

It all started with the Marshal of the Sejm forbidding any journalists from entering the Sejm (the lower house of the parliament) from entering.

Link One.

Link two.

One of the opposition MPs in protest of the violation of the rights of the citizenry to be informed about the proceedings in the Sejm showed a card saying #wolnemediia (free media) and was excluded from the Sejm deliberations (now he may be facing charges for up to three years in prison. In protest, the opposition parties seized control of the rostrum. PiS (the ruling party) decided to instead deliberate in a different room - one that didn't have enough voting machines to accomodate all MPs. A PiS MP was sent to the satellite antiestablishmentarians Kukiz '16 and moved to the Column Hall. The MPs of those two parties have been let in, but no other MPs were allowed in by the BOR. The two parties allowed to vote didn't fullfill the quorum needed to set the budget, but it was voted in anyway within minutes. One of the more trustworthy newspapers (Polityka) claims that unafilliated people were allowed to vote.

Link One.

Link Two.

Link Three - The source claiming unafilliated people voted.

Link Four

Upon news of the laws (budget and a pension rent decrease for members of the old government) being passed illegally there was a spontaneous protest in front of the presidential palace. Police has been mobilized across the entire country. In the night, at around 03:35 AM the protesters were attacked by police. Tear gas wasn't supposedly used (or at least the police chief claims so). The PiS Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration Mariusz Błaszczak claims the opposition tried to coup the nation (lolwut)

watLink

Link Two.

Link Three

Link Four


If everything goes right I will post again with other information about polish internal politics.

[Loud Whispers]

Labour MP saying Putin interfered in the Brexit referendum. What I find hilarious about this article by the Independent is that it omits the part where this MP also said Putin caused the refugee crisis in order to divide the "free world." Will such fools ever take responsibility for their own failures? No, I suspect not. The free world does not like doing so apparently, Blair, Brown and Cameron didn't cause Brexit, Putin did, Angela Merkel didn't cause the refugee crisis, Putin did, Clinton, Obama and the RNC didn't cause Trump, Putin did - never looking at their own flaws, only blaming Putin.

In a way it is amusing to see liberals shapeshift into homonationalists, they sound exactly like the Milos of the world now. Liberalism has finally died, its remnants have become whatever the hell this is now. Liberals want to go to war with Russia, liberals want to ban burkas, liberals want to deport Muslims who threaten gays, I wonder what changed in the media, how they went from reporting on how Putin was a failure and Russia was impending total collapse, to Putin is a 5 dimensional chessmaster who has conquered the world without lifting a finger. I suspect it has much to do with Clinton wishing to enforce a no-fly zone over Syria, something impossible without waging war on Russia, and her surprise defeat being quite the shock. I have my fingers crossed that soon liberals will start talking about Soviet ideological subversion of the West, that will complete their inevitable metamorphosis into shitposters of equal calibre to tinfoil news.

Alas, this is all politics on the grand scheme of things, so it means little of consequence. Still a funny observation though, the liberal world finally found its foreign foe to rally against, the Russian scum have spine, thus people will choose the stronger scum. All hail the Holy Russian Empire lmao, we still got more problems at home to deal with

I mean look at this shit, rapists who were never deported and 12 year old Christmas bombers, the West is kill and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Also an interesting read on jihadists coming back to Germany because of course the West lets people make homes into bases of operations lmao, and a rather interesting breakdown of radicalization. Internet, mosques and the most important of all - social spheres, are the prime factors in radicalization. Easily dispels the retarded notion that having jihadis recruiting kids on your street somehow isn't a problem.

[Kot]

One of the opposition MPs in protest of the violation of the rights of the citizenry to be informed about the proceedings in the Sejm showed a card saying #wolnemediia (free media) and was excluded from the Sejm deliberations (now he may be facing charges for up to three years in prison. In protest, the opposition parties seized control of the rostrum. PiS (the ruling party) decided to instead deliberate in a different room - one that didn't have enough voting machines to accomodate all MPs. A PiS MP was sent to the satellite antiestablishmentarians Kukiz '16 and moved to the Column Hall. The MPs of those two parties have been let in, but no other MPs were allowed in by the BOR. The two parties allowed to vote didn't fullfill the quorum needed to set the budget, but it was voted in anyway within minutes. One of the more trustworthy newspapers (Polityka) claims that unafilliated people were allowed to vote.

It met quorum, by like 5 MPs (close but still lawful). The opposition is just salty as hell because they blocked the main room so people who wanted to vote anyway were moved to other so they were caught in their own trap. And as I say, the whole thing is horrendously overblown and it shows - a lot of provocations, overinflated numbers (even your sources state 2000... is that really a huge demonstration? I mean, technically it is thousands...) - it's really a media stunt and, to be truly honest, PiS isin't handling it very well. It's getting into sensless battles with opposition which is not going to bring any good. After all, PO or Nowoczesna aren't really fighting for any cause, they're fighting to get their snouts in the trough.

Upon news of the laws (budget and a pension rent decrease for members of the old government) being passed illegally there was a spontaneous protest in front of the presidential palace. Police has been mobilized across the entire country. In the night, at around 03:35 AM the protesters were attacked by police. Tear gas wasn't supposedly used (or at least the police chief claims so). The PiS Minister of Internal Affairs and Administration Mariusz Błaszczak claims the opposition tried to coup the nation (lolwut)

Attacked by police? Aww, that's cute. And police mobilization in whole country? Where? When? What?

As for the coup... well, in January, the leader of PO said that they are going to bring people on the streets, fight "in the European Union" and that "today we are going to take the rule from PiS". This is certainly the wet dream of opposition, though as I said, PiS is letting PO get on their heads right now.

[SaberToothTiger]

*snip*

A bit of a misprecision there - I read that there were some brawls between the police and the protesters - but I had no knowledge of such heroic behaviour on the part of the protesters that is shown in the video. I skimped over the protest themselves - they are kind of meagre anyways.

I think we can both agree that this incident doesn't bode well for the remainder of the PiS's term though - it's gonna be quite a struggle for them to get anything done if things keep being this way. Their best hope still is to lose the next election, so that the time bomb the child encouragement programme blows up in someone else's face.

And if what the delegates to the Sejm should be taken at face value, then dear god are we doomed, we are surrounded by idiots.

[Kot]

Yeah, it's a shitshow (as it's customary in Poland) but it's nowhere as bad as people put in - it's not a revolution, the Poland is not falling apart, we are not the next Ukraine (yet).

It was clear that ever since the start the opposition is going to start shit and that's what they're going to do for the next few years, and after a while I am afraid that people will start going with it (which won't be that hard, PiS is widely hated despite still being slightly better option than the majority of other parties), so, yeah, any changes will be a bitch to make. Also, it should be noted that the official PiS stance is that the whole thing is about taking away money from past Communist politicans and members of UB, while keeping silent about the media stuff, while official PO stance is that it's only about media and nothing about the "deuzbekization", so yeah, multiple truths and the objective truth is proably somewhere in between.

As for being doomed... well, to fix Poland it would take a literal Deus Ex Machina - either everyone gets their heads out of asses (not possible, sadly) or (Alt-right and glorification aside) second Piłsudzki to grab all the idiots by their necks.

Also, few clarifications:
Serveral (not suprisingly, opposition-related) media said they will have a "day without politics" after the restrictions on journalists were announced, but they started to report the whole shitshow under the parliment because "they couldn't keep quiet anymore".
Szczerba and other opposition MPs were warned multiple times by the Marshal of the Sejm to stop the "Free Media" shitshow and start focusing on the thing at hand so it wasn't that weird for Szczerba to get thrown out for that sign.
The MPs got text messages and it was announced on the screens that the assembly is moved to other room, and while the journalists were forbidden from entering (because of the original restrictions, not because the room got changed) supposedly no MPs were stopped. The official count is 236 (required is 231, IIRC), though it could be different due to less-than-stellar conditions in the smaller room.
Jarosław Kaczyński and Prime Minister Beata Szydło had to leave under the Police escort but majority of the MPs left using the main entrance since the actual demonstration wasn't as bad as it's supposed to be.

People are still mad because they don't agree with how Parliment works (legal, albeit it's hard to prove that the quorum was met), the Free Media thing (still legal, it was to stop the journalists from meddling and being annoying cucks, not to mention that from what I heard it's normal in any other country), that the voting took place outside the room it was supposed to take (but it's still legal, after all it was the opposition who literally occupied the place), because supposed "police brutality" (no signs it was illegal, any "proofs" (the video I posted before, the one with guy laying on the ground - TVN cut it so it only shows the guy on the road and not how he ended up there) that it was were proven to be provocations and fakes) and because they just dislike PiS that, I would like to remind you, got democractically elected (legal as fuck).

[Baffler]

I have my fingers crossed that soon liberals will start talking about Soviet ideological subversion of the West, that will complete their inevitable metamorphosis into shitposters of equal calibre to tinfoil news.

>Tfw I spent an hour this morning talking about the ideological subversion of the West.

What have I become?

A Russian Putin shill. Don't worry it's not that bad, the only thing I'd really worry about is people being mad that you took up some of their share of the shill-rubles. The FSB doesn't have the budget the KGB did back in the day.

[Rolepgeek]

Things don't have to be illegal for them to be wrong or undesirable. You know that as well as anyone, Kot

[Sergarr]

The SPD's Thomas Oppermann, Germany, has called for fines (500,000 Euro!) against social media platforms if fake reports are not quickly deleted. A new law to control fake news and hate messages is under consideration.

I see the Western society is starting to see the benefit of censuring not-state-sanctioned - oh, sorry, fake news and "hate" messages, hehehe.

USSR v.2 - soon coming to your house!

[Sheb]

Jeeez, yeah, this is scary.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think you'll find that the German government hasn't been a reliable supporter of free speech for some time, or perhaps ever. Not really a new thing.

[martinuzz]

The German highschool 'Istanbul Lisesi' in Istanbul, Turkey, has received a ban on celebrating christmas from the Turkish authorities.
They are no longer allowed to speak about the christian tradition in their classes, and singing is also banned. This is the first time this ever happened to the school, which employs 35 German teachers, teaching mostly kids from the rich Turkish elite.
The school is part of a cultural agreement between Germany and Turkey, which sees 80 teachers from Germany deployed over a handful of schools.

Turkey very busy becoming caliphate.

[Sheb]

That seems to be against article 14 of the Turkish constitution, but good luck getting your rights in court.