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[martinuzz]

Meanwhile, Turkey and Russia had a diplomatic meeting today to "restore trade relations to what they were, or better yet, improve them over the situation before november 24th".

On that day, Russian-Turkish relations were seriously damaged by Turkey shooting down a Russian jet fighter.

Perhaps Erdogan is preparing for the leave NATO scenario?

Yesterday, Erdogan ranted about Europe violating the refugee agreement, not paying up and not allowing Turks to enter the EU without visum yet, in an interview with the german ARD channel. He also reiterated in the interview, that "the people of Turkey want the death penalty back, we have to listen to them".
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/erdogan-interview-107.html

[Orange Wizard]

Perhaps Erdogan is preparing for the leave NATO scenario?

Seems like a prudent decision. Strategically it'd be good for Russia to have closer ties with Turkey as well.

Yesterday, Erdogan ranted about Europe violating the refugee agreement, not paying up and not allowing Turks to enter the EU without visum yet.

Haha, it's almost as though Turkey's not in the EU

[Loud Whispers]

After the perpetrators were shot, police found that they had killed the priest by slitting his throat. Another hostage is in hospital in critical condition.
There's some reports the bearded men shouted 'Daesh'.
Does not make sense though, I thought Daesh was a curse word for IS, not used by them themselves.

It's just the Arabic acronym, means the same thing. Westerners love it because they get tired of saying "so-called" every time they say Islamic State, and if they say Daesh no one knows what it means so they don't have to bother saying "so-called Daesh", cos it's just the acronym for Dawlat al-Islamiyah f'al-Iraq wa al-Sham. It's supposed to be derogatory cos Daesh sounds like the Arabic words that translate to "to trample on" so whilst Daesh try to appear civilized and shit, the name says they're trampling on stuff. Which is pretty weak if you ask me, since they don't really care if anyone says they're trampling on infidels. Much better off just calling them goat-fucking outcasts, or G(T)FO

[Erkki]

I dont think this is more than just theater for interior politics. Or with time, Uncle Erdö will find out that the Russki will not forget. Nor forgive.

Russia still fights a foe that Turkey supports, or at least tolerates, and threat of Islamic Jihadists is very real in both nations.

[andrea]

problem is, erdogan is discovering that his allies don't like him at all.
He might want to get closer ties to russia, if not to fully change alliances at least to have another bargaining chip.

[martinuzz]

President Hollande has confirmed in a press conference that the church assailants claimed to act on behalf of IS.
He say that France will continue it's battle with IS with 'all means available'. Does he mean nukes?

The Vatican has condemned the "barbaric murder" of the 86 year old priest and said that "it's even more gruesome because it happened in a holy place".

[Orange Wizard]

Unlikeliness aside, it would be pretty satisfying to see Raqqa go up in a mushroom cloud

[DJ]

Nuke's too fast, dirty bomb plox so they take days or weeks to die of radiation poisoning. I mean, that's where the discussion is going, right?

[martinuzz]

Don't you think that's a bit of sensationalist editorialising?

Maybe a bit. I did genuinly wonder though what Hollande meant with 'all means available', with France having the 3d or 4th largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

[DJ]

No matter what means are used, what exactly would be accomplished by complete destruction of Raqqa?

[Orange Wizard]

No matter what means are used, what exactly would be accomplished by complete destruction of Raqqa?

It'd be a nightmare for IS to recover, logistically. If the centre of their organisation is gone, it's not a stretch to imagine splinters opening up all over the place.
Morale would be ruined. Capital of the Caliphate, vaporised? Fuck, maybe this war isn't worth fighting any more.
Morale would be ruined on the coalition side, which might give pacifists and progressives enough leverage to convince everyone to stop fighting.
Hundreds of thousands of Sunni Muslims also vaporised. That's a plus for militant Shiites, crusaders, and the alt-right. UN and HRW can suck it.
Finally, we get to see a cool mushroom cloud.

[DJ]

Yeah, but our problem isn't really the ones in Syria, it's the ones in Europe. Sure, they declare allegiance to IS, but I doubt there's much real connection between them. If there was some sort of a hierarchy, intelligence agencies wouldn't so powerless to prevent these attacks. So yeah, can't really disrupt logistics, and as far as morale is concerned I think nuking the Caliphate would be more likely to radicalize them even more than to demoralize them into quitting.

[martinuzz]

It's not about flying off to Syria. DJ means that it would possibly radicalize more of the EU-born muslims, and cause more Paris / Nice/ Munich / etc. attacks.

[DJ]

Yeah, them flying off to Syria and getting out of our hair is actually a good thing. Especially if they wind up killed by Kurds.

[smjjames]

Not to mention that using nukes is against international law. And it would severely wreck relations with other countries.