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[Egan_BW]

I'm mostly just concerned that you said that fucking specific other people over doesn't matter, which seems to display a critical misunderstanding of what fucking people over implies.
There is a moral to this story, and it is this: fucking people over is bad, m'kay?

[Egan_BW]

I am a progress-ist. I believe that progress can be used to actually help everyone, rather than screw over some of them.

[Bohandas]

I'm mostly just concerned that you said that fucking specific other people over doesn't matter, which seems to display a critical misunderstanding of what fucking people over implies.
There is a moral to this story, and it is this: fucking people over is bad, m'kay?

It can be negligible compared to the cost of not doing it.

Furthermore, you misunderstand the purpose of the economy. The overriding purpose of the economy is to provide goods and services, workers and capitalists alike are both merely temporary necessary evils toward this end.

If the economy were a machine, profits and salaries would be the energy lost to friction.

[Bohandas]

I'm mostly just concerned that you said that fucking specific other people over doesn't matter, which seems to display a critical misunderstanding of what fucking people over implies.
There is a moral to this story, and it is this: fucking people over is bad, m'kay?

What about people who run protection rackets, or do loansharking, or sell tobacco, professionally?

[Sheb]

Also, one point no one raised here is that Bohandas doesn't want to stop people from selling music or books. He wants to stop people from enjoying a government subsidies in the form of an enforced right to a work. Now, I don't agree with him (although I'd like to see it curtailed from its current ridiculous state, I like the idea of an author having control over his work), but the analogy is closer to removing regulations forcing people to use lamps than it is to banning them.

[TheBiggerFish]

Also, one point no one raised here is that Bohandas doesn't want to stop people from selling music or books. He wants to stop people from enjoying a government subsidies in the form of an enforced right to a work. Now, I don't agree with him (although I'd like to see it curtailed from its current ridiculous state, I like the idea of an author having control over his work), but the analogy is closer to removing regulations forcing people to use lamps than it is to banning them.

Well, yes, but there's also adding this element of "Lamps are free game to be stolen."

I don't mind curtailing copyright a bit, and PATENT a LOT, but there should definitely be some protections.

[Bohandas]

Also, one point no one raised here is that Bohandas doesn't want to stop people from selling music or books. He wants to stop people from enjoying a government subsidies in the form of an enforced right to a work. Now, I don't agree with him (although I'd like to see it curtailed from its current ridiculous state, I like the idea of an author having control over his work), but the analogy is closer to removing regulations forcing people to use lamps than it is to banning them.

Well, yes, but there's also adding this element of "Lamps are free game to be stolen."

There's nothing analogous to that at all in my proposal.

YOUR proposal is more akin to saying you can't make your own lamp, based on a lamp you saw whose existence and presence is not in any way altered or diminished by your copy of it, you have to buy them all from a single crooked supplier.

[Bohandas]

To give an analogy, copyright law is like if the baker and the fishmonger tried to shake down Jesus for more money after the feeding of the multitude claiming that the miraculous extra bread and fish were somehow "stolen" from them.

[Bohandas]

I don't see why either of those things should matter.

[Bohandas]

but it was a duplicate of something he made

[Radio Controlled]

Yes, and he is trying to make money off of his mental labor. Which is hard if a big publisher could just copy his work and sell it at a fraction of the price (economy of scale, price per unit, like a physical book, goes down as you make more units) and keep all the money for himself.

[Rolepgeek]

Also, one point no one raised here is that Bohandas doesn't want to stop people from selling music or books. He wants to stop people from enjoying a government subsidies in the form of an enforced right to a work. Now, I don't agree with him (although I'd like to see it curtailed from its current ridiculous state, I like the idea of an author having control over his work), but the analogy is closer to removing regulations forcing people to use lamps than it is to banning them.

Well, yes, but there's also adding this element of "Lamps are free game to be stolen."

I don't mind curtailing copyright a bit, and PATENT a LOT, but there should definitely be some protections.

How much?

I mean, I agree that copyright is more ridiculous than patent, but mostly in the sense of often being self-defeating. Like if a company is essentially forced to sue in order to keep a copyright, because they plan on doing something with it in a few years and if they don't have a copyright on it then they won't be able to make enough money from it to justify said.

Copyright law is actually like if there was a law against making wine without a license and Jesus kept making wine and vintners were worried about going out of business because of what looks like some dude with magic.

There's issues with it, but it's not pointless, and it's not there just to get in the way. It's meant to provides the ability to make money from your creations for small companies.

It's not 'the dude with a printer' they're worried about. It's 'publishing company gets one copy of your book, reproduces it at far lower cost, redistributes it more cheaply than you can afford to...and you get jack shit.' It's helping people to create even without economy of scale backing them up. Because the big companies that have that economy of scale like reliability, not boldness. Patents are similar. Now, what they're currently being used for is different, but that's why you reform stuff.

Also I don't really think patent/copyright law needs to be part of the constitution, and thus incredibly difficult to change back if it turns out to go badly. *shrug*

[Bohandas]

Yes, and he is trying to make money off of his mental labor. Which is hard if a big publisher could just copy his work and sell it at a fraction of the price (economy of scale, price per unit, like a physical book, goes down as you make more units) and keep all the money for himself.

Why, under these circumstances, would they buy it from a publisher.

Hell, we could ban publishers too if it makes you feel better. That's not a big deal.

[Radio Controlled]

Yes, and he is trying to make money off of his mental labor. Which is hard if a big publisher could just copy his work and sell it at a fraction of the price (economy of scale, price per unit, like a physical book, goes down as you make more units) and keep all the money for himself.

Why, under these circumstances, would they buy it from a publisher.

Hell, we could ban publishers too if it makes you feel better. That's not a big deal.

Who is 'they' in this example? The customers? Because they would buy it from the publisher because they can get it cheaper then.

And if you ban publishers, then books in general probably become more expensive. A rather big deal, I'd say.

[Bohandas]

Yes, and he is trying to make money off of his mental labor. Which is hard if a big publisher could just copy his work and sell it at a fraction of the price (economy of scale, price per unit, like a physical book, goes down as you make more units) and keep all the money for himself.

Why, under these circumstances, would they buy it from a publisher.

Hell, we could ban publishers too if it makes you feel better. That's not a big deal.

Who is 'they' in this example? The customers? Because they would buy it from the publisher because they can get it cheaper then.

Cheaper than Project Gutenberg?!?