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[Shakerag]

Deus Asmoth:

Shakerag, are Griffin and Sargent guaranteed to be non-scum or just not mafia? It just seems odd that it'd take three nights for the cult to convert someone and still be able to.

My ability says the NPCs can not be mafia, but they may be any other alignment.  So ... technically they could be cult-aligned I guess?  The cult wouldn't be able to control their votes though.


4maskwolf:

Going for an everybody wins scenario is honestly rather pointless: while it would be nice to figure out a way to do it, all it takes is one person sabotaging it and it doesn't happen, which could result in a town loss.  I'm not willing to risk that in order to ensure an "everyone wins" that could be undermined by the mafia or cult.

Not a fan of the prisoner's dilemma, eh?

So who are your top scumpicks then?

[4maskwolf]

4maskwolf:

Going for an everybody wins scenario is honestly rather pointless: while it would be nice to figure out a way to do it, all it takes is one person sabotaging it and it doesn't happen, which could result in a town loss.  I'm not willing to risk that in order to ensure an "everyone wins" that could be undermined by the mafia or cult.

Not a fan of the prisoner's dilemma, eh?

So who are your top scumpicks then?

Not a fan, not a fan.

I got weird vibes from TolyK on days one and two, and I need to read back to figure out why TMS and Tawa are voting someone who flipped town.  Other than that, not really, I should really be paying more attention but role-heavy games don't tend to come down to lynches (unless there is a kill-immune anti-town role).

[Shakerag]

Well, this doesn't seem to be going anywhere terribly fast, so I'm going to shoot for inspecting The Moonlit Shadow via roleflip. 

Mostly due to process of elimination such that I've seen some questionably town actions from a number of players, but not so much TMS. 

[TheDarkStar]

Ok TMS. Your case makes no sense, I think you are a jester, and it would be good if you got daykilled. You're completely missing the point of what DA is saying and your sources don't match what you are saying at all. For example:

1. Look:

Ineffective scumhunting, drawing attention to yourself while diverting attention from your target.

I'm pretty sure this is the definition of bad play, not of scum play.

Tolyk agrees too. Fairly sure most everyone does.

TolyK says that he doesn't think DA is scum. You use this as evidence that everyone thinks DA is scum. First, how does that make any kind of sense? Second, why the assertion that everything thinks DA is scum?

Also, you said that DA was scum after a D4 activity spike. Isn't this related to him being dead for part of the game? This part specifically makes me think you are some kind of jester because your case went from bad to illogical.

[Teneb]

Ok TMS. Your case makes no sense, I think you are a jester, and it would be good if you got daykilled.

There isn't a Jester. Unless you don't believe 4maskwolf's list, in which case you should say so. Anyway, I'm pretty sure you are scum (of either persuasion), though I will not bother with setting up a case since you are currently unkillable.

Anyway, action claims:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

D1: I checked TDS for lies. I don't need to pick a post, the mod simply points me to one that contains at least one lie. Half-truths and omissions are not counted as lies. This was the post:

So does everybody agree that it is our best interest to try any and all methods to make sure TDS doesn't live?

Yes, but not right now. Killing me off early makes it easier for the town to lose. Also, I have a power that can kill me.

N1: I used a protect on Hector. It turned into a kill due to the then-active extra rules, resulting in removing some pretty serious lung-shaped tumors. He didn't make it (but got better, so hey).

D2: Didn't happen.

N2: I jailed Tiruin via crowbar to head.

D3: I traded a role with OSG.

N3: I tried to get my role back from OSG.

D4: I traded a role with Tiruin, who returned it sometime later.

[TheDarkStar]

Aren't there a few outsiders and third parties?

Spoiler: Action claim (click to show/hide)

I've targeted myself for three nights. Nothing else.

[Teneb]

Aren't there a few outsiders and third parties?

Spoiler: Action claim (click to show/hide)

I've targeted myself for three nights. Nothing else.

1 outsider. Hector. 1 town-ally. Tumbleweed.

[TheDarkStar]

Aren't there a few outsiders and third parties?

Spoiler: Action claim (click to show/hide)

I've targeted myself for three nights. Nothing else.

1 outsider. Hector. 1 town-ally. Tumbleweed.

I retract any jester-related accusations.

The Moonlit Shadow

[Deus Asmoth]

Tiruin and/or Tawa: did you ever resolve that conflict between the claim that Tiruin used a block that was successful and Tawa using a kill ability? I can't see any final verdict on the dissonance there.

Shakerag, by reordering the action resolutions, can you do stuff like putting kills before protects?

TMS:

DA:

In response to your question: I think you're scum. So me focusing on you isn't wasting time.

That's stupid. Do you want to know why it's stupid? I'll tell you. You think I'm the newly converted cultist. The thing about cultists is that even if you lynch one every day the town will still lose because the cult leader can  just convert more. Even worse, you already know that I can just immediately come back if you lynch me. So you're trying to lynch someone who is both completely expendable even if you're right and immortal in any case. You've given no indication of who you think could be the cult leader if you're right. So you're pursuing a dead end case with no idea what to do afterwards. Waste of everyone's time, especially mine.

1. Look:

Ineffective scumhunting, drawing attention to yourself while diverting attention from your target.

I'm pretty sure this is the definition of bad play, not of scum play.

Tolyk agrees too. Fairly sure most everyone does.

This doesn't say that Tolyk agrees with you, regardless of whether you're saying it's about being scum or playing badly.

2. Then what were you referring to?

Well, gee, mister. I quoted something with two points in it and told you that the first one wasn't the one I was referring to. Hmm... I wonder what I could possibly have been talking about then? This is a tough one. Perhaps if we think about it together, real hard we can figure this puzzler out.

3. You talked to Tiruin about me. You talked about the NPC's, who are the only ones besides me and Tiruin you've said a word to.

Incorrect. False. Lies. Untrue. Bullshit, is what I'm getting at.

4. Then what are you doing?

I'm pointing out that your 'case' on me is idiotic.

Hmmm...

Furthermore:

8 town, 2 mafia, 2 cult, outsider, town-ally.

Right. Assuming that 4mask is telling the truth (would anyone be opposed to me giving him enough infractions to get him modkilled so that we can check if he's [still] town?) then the cult is actually capable of converting people after all. So it might be worth claiming if anyone blocked someone during night 1 and/or 2 but not 3 so that we can try to get rid of the leader before this becomes an issue.

Furthermore, we know that neither hector nor the tumbleweed were converted (unless Sargent or Griffin feel like claiming outsider or town-ally), so that's two people we can rule out. Griffin and Sargent are also unlikely targets since the cult leader likely wasn't aware that they were in the game when targeting their conversion. So that leaves 9 players as potential conversions or scum. I know that I'm town, meaning that there's a 50% chance of hitting scum of some sort even by just lynching randomly. Those odds aren't entirely awful. Also, OSG is confirmed as town once he comes back I guess, since the non-town faction numbers are unchanged (besides cult going up one- unless the WIFOM laden thought that just occurred to me is true).

Following on from that, Tolyk probably wouldn't be so open about wanting everyone to win as scum and TDS can't be lynched... so...
Tiruin, random chance tells me that you're scum. If you admit it now we can lynch you rather than forcing me to give you a bunch of infractions.

4mask, did you get a list of alignments during day 1, and if so was there a jester? We might as well sort out whether Shakerag is changing alignments every day.

DA's activity spikes on D4. The same day a new cultist appears.

So increased activity means that I'm scum now? It's a good thing that there's absolutely nothing else it could be linked to, like me getting access to my role actions.

[Shakerag]

Deus Asmoth:

Shakerag, by reordering the action resolutions, can you do stuff like putting kills before protects?

I'm not sure what else you think I could have meant by what I said.  Yes, that's what my ability does.

I don't personally see any benefit to me or anyone else (non-scum) from using it, but if you've got a brilliant insight I'm all ears.

[TolyK]

I also have an action-resolution power, though it makes my target act last.

I also see no use for it, as of yet.

[flabort]

Votecount
Tawarochir:
TheDarkStar:
Hector13 (I):
The Moonlit Shadow:  TheDarkStar,   Shakerag
Tiruin:
4maskwolf:
Shakerag:
Teneb:
TolyK (II):
Deus Asmoth:  Tawarochir, TheMoonlitShadow
THE GRIFFIN:
THE SARGENT:  Deus Asmoth
A Tumbling Tumbleweed:

Not voting: TheMoonlitShadow,  Tiruin, 4maskwolf,,  Teneb, TolyK, Hector13,  THE GRIFFIN, THE SARGENT

Day ends in ~3 hours, 1/2 extensions used

[4maskwolf]

Oh there's a tie.

Humph.

Tawa, are you going to say anything of consequence for the rest of the day?

[Deus Asmoth]

Shake:

Deus Asmoth:

Shakerag, by reordering the action resolutions, can you do stuff like putting kills before protects?

I'm not sure what else you think I could have meant by what I said.  Yes, that's what my ability does.

I don't personally see any benefit to me or anyone else (non-scum) from using it, but if you've got a brilliant insight I'm all ears.

I just wanted to clarify. It seems odd that it's worded that way rather than just negating protects since it seems to be essentially the same thing, but eh.

1. So we should ignore converts? That's cool. If we kill you, at least you can't do anything that night.

Do you think that lynching me will give you any indication of who the cult leader is? Because since you don't seem to have any idea at the moment, I'd like to know how you think that wasting (at the very minimum) three days to get me to stay dead and giving the cult leader free reign in the meantime is a good idea.

2. I don't know. Just say it.

Seriously? Wanting you to read something you've already quoted is too much work.

3. ... Not much I can say. It's pretty much true...

'Pretty much' true or actually true, which was what you were arguing before? And three points. No, it's not, you liar. Second, you seem to be ridiculously surprised that someone is addressing the arguments you're using to vote for them rather than rolling over and playing dead. Third, you're a massive hypocrite for even pretending that it's a valid reason for your vote on me.

4. But it's not though.

Yes. It is.

5. Reaaally? Did you use those actions to get that analysis? You had access to all/most of that information the day before.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Deus Asmoth]

Hum. Didn't notice we were that close to day ending. TMS, then.