Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

No (flat 0.3E/T/u, break-even times 3T, 5T, 8T, 13T, 19T) (pro: Balances T4-based agents, contra: Takes forever to break even)

6 (33.3%)

Yes (1/3 creation cost/T, break-even times 3T, 3T, 3T, 3T, 3T) (pro: 3x break-even ratio preserved, contra: Low-tier races useless)

2 (11.1%)

Yes ((tier + 1)/3, break-even times 3T, 6T, 8T, 10T, 12T) (pro: Maximizes above two's strengths? contra: Maximizes above two's weaknesses?)

9 (50%)

Yes (other scale posted in thread)

1 (5.6%)

Yes (another scale posted in thread)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 18

[Ardent Debater]

KJP'll post when he has time. Arguing about something to keep the thread alive is a bit silly

But it does help pass the time. So it isn't completely pointless.

[Rolepgeek]

Well we are talking about a shape-shifting bear. It doesn't really make sense to inject a mundane bear into a conversation where supernatural bears already are. Even then, by game mechanics, they will dodge a good amount of the time. Skin in rhinos is different then skin on humans, a casual glance can tell you this. Its formed from collagen in a lattice structure, giving it more strength than human's skin of equivalent or greater thickness. And I said you can cut skin with paper, something that you may be shocked to realize is impossible with kevlar! I am sure that is either some kind of fallacy, or you just can't read. Getting into something's rib-cage isn't that hard, once you tear open the front of them with the massive claws you are using.

And as far as game mechanics go, no its not hard dodging boulders. Assuming a normal d6 test, they have roughly a 50% chance to dodge if they get a non-penalty roll. And you can't correct mid-swing. Go ahead, turn around and throw a punch. Now try to correct your punch, before it finishes. Also, put your hips into it, you punch like a girl. See? It isn't easy. Have you ever tried to kill a fly before? Its a bit like that, the fly is much smaller than you but is capable of moving out of the way easily.

And I am begging to think you have no understanding of what this conversation is about. Andres stated that the "Shapeshifter" trait was OPed because you could transform into a +2 Goliath that shoots fire, overestimating its strength. He then stated that if you could turn into that, you wouldn't want to turn into a "bear" which you would also be capable of. This situation is two shapeshifters fighting, one taking the "bear" transformation the other taking the "Goliath", this is a perfectly reasonable scenario for this game. In continuation with this, the Goliath could just change from a firebreath to a whateverbreath, due to being a shapeshifter.

1. Human skin is also collagen. My point is that your saying it's 'just skin' is a useless thing to say. You may as well say Kevlar is 'just cloth'. It does in fact make a difference when it's thicker, as evidenced by calluses.
2. If you had Kevlar only as thick as human skin, I'd bet it could be cut by paper.
3. You're switching back and forth between realism and game mechanics as it suits your purposes.
4. Ad Hominem funtimes(what the fuck does punch like a girl mean? I've been in fights a couple of times, they're not pleasant; I don't usually throw punches, I swing chairs because I don't have the self-awareness while fighting to hold back)
5. Size Ratio of Fly:Human =/= Size Ratio of Bear:Giant
6. Flies can fly, bears cannot
7. If we're talking about shapeshifters, why the hell is the Goliath not wearing armor? You can ask the same of the bear if you'd like, but seriously, why are we assuming they're naked? That's my point. Claws don't mean shit ('massive', right, they're about as big to the goliath as a dog's claws are to us).
8. Andres asked why you would ever turn into the bear. You guys seem to be saying that there's no reason to become the Goliath. I'm pointing out the legitimate reasons there are that the Goliath would not auto-lose.
9. I said getting past, not getting into. Trying to go straight in through the rib cage, rather than under it, is fairly hard if you're smaller than the thing you're attacking and just using claws.
10. You correct continuously while punching. Particularly if you've got a ways to go before you reach your target. You can't usually correct it all the way, but it does in fact make it more difficult to avoid.
11. THERE YOU GO ASSUMING THINGS AGAIN MY GOD ANDRES STIRK WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS!

>:[ Seriously Stirk. I expect better out of you.

[tntey]

PriceCheck$$$

Spoiler:  Disease Activate Trait (click to show/hide)

This trait makes it so a disease will do a certain thing when activated by a certain trigger.

[Happy Demon]

If being big doesn't auto-give you advantages, why would it give you disadvantages?

I said free s***, aka. getting things you otherwise had to pay for (one hindrance for several advantages).

7. If we're talking about shapeshifters, why the hell is the Goliath not wearing armor? You can ask the same of the bear if you'd like, but seriously, why are we assuming they're naked? That's my point. Claws don't mean shit ('massive', right, they're about as big to the goliath as a dog's claws are to us).
8. Andres asked why you would ever turn into the bear. You guys seem to be saying that there's no reason to become the Goliath. I'm pointing out the legitimate reasons there are that the Goliath would not auto-lose.

Because he didn't present the shapeshifters using armor. If the goliath had used armor and a proper weapon (rather than some random tree trunk), then the goliath would win (fur isn't good for securing armor).
But outside planned circumstances, the bear holds the most power, as while it has shallow tactical value, it's a powerhouse.

[Stirk]

1. Its callogen in a different structure. That is like saying graphite and diamonds are "just carbon" and therefore the same thing. They are different.
2. Human skin ranges from .5mm (eyelids) to 4mm (palms). 1 layer of Kevlar isn't going to get cut by paper. In fact, thickness doesn't matter when it comes to cutting. 100mm of skin will get cut just as easily as .5mm, under the same circumstances.
3. No, we are discussing both. Because we have always been discussing both.
4. Apparently you aren't smart enough to know what a common saying means. Or smart enough to google it.
5. No, it was an example that proves a point. By the same token the fists aren't exactly "boulders" compared to the bear. As you where talking about general examples with "punching down being easy", it is fair to compare it to another general example.
6. That doesn't mean a lot, when the bear is a sentient and trained fighter while the fly is not. It proves the concept.
7. Because he is a shapeshifter who is normally a lot smaller. He can't carry around armor that is two times as large as he is, and he can only stay in that shape for a minute. Or do you expect a size 0 to carry around size 2 armor and weapons his entire life, just in case he needs to get into a fight?
8. No, I am saying that the Goliath does not have a massive advantage over a bear in a fight, and more generally, that having the size advantage doesn't mean a lot in this game.
9. Then why would you try to go straight through the rib-cage? I am saying that you would have no reason to do things the hard way when you have many options when killing things with your claws. If you are attacking the chest, you don't have to get past the ribcage to get the enemy down. The rip-cage gaps would also be lengthened, smaller claws likely could simply go past them the same way blades to. Mechanically, blades are no different then bladed weapons.
10. No you don't. I can't think of any way you would even think that was possible. It takes less then a second to land a punch, trying to correct it would be like trying to correct an actual thrown object.
11. What part is assuming? Its literally their power to transform? I'm starting to think you are a robot stringing random words together in an attempt to pass a turring test.

[tntey]

Hey guys lets not resort to throwing insults. Can we try to be civil?

[Detoxicated]

So if I were to create a unique angel with tasks and such, I would use the agent template?
Also if I don't want it to be based on a creature how would that work out?

Also I am thinking about spirits fulfilling certain tasks in the magical ecosystem, how many action points per spiritual race?

[Andres]

Are there "mundane" magical animals?

[Detoxicated]

Well technically I want to create different types of spirits that hold up different aspects of existance. I don't know if you could consider that animal at all...

[Andres]

That was actually a question for KJP. Your idea inspired the question.

[Detoxicated]

Maybe if we created a magic system based on spirits we could create mundane magical animals.

If you're interested we could create such a system. If you care to explain how its done I could also do it myself.


If I create a Magic Sytem based on spirits, could I gain access to subspecies of mundane spirits?

[Andres]

Maybe if we created a magic system based on spirits we could create mundane magical animals.

If you're interested we could create such a system. If you care to explain how its done I could also do it myself.

I'm not really interested in making a new magic system. The thaumic-based system is a good one.


For Resurrective, do you need to buy Hard to Kill first or does it come with it? In other words, does it cost a total of 5pt or 3pt?

[Stirk]

So if I were to create a unique angel with tasks and such, I would use the agent template?
Also if I don't want it to be based on a creature how would that work out?

Also I am thinking about spirits fulfilling certain tasks in the magical ecosystem, how many action points per spiritual race?

Yes, any unique unit really uses the Angel Template. If you didn't want to base it on a creature, you would do something like Henrietta, basically put down the 8 points worth of traits you want and pay the 9E.

Maybe if we created a magic system based on spirits we could create mundane magical animals.

If you're interested we could create such a system. If you care to explain how its done I could also do it myself.

I'm not really interested in making a new magic system. The thaumic-based system is a good one.


For Resurrective, do you need to buy Hard to Kill first or does it come with it? In other words, does it cost a total of 5pt or 3pt?

5pts total. We had a conversation about this earlier.

[Andres]

Yes, any unique unit really uses the Angel Template.

There is no Angel Template. There has never been an Angel Template. This has always been the Angel Template.

5pts total. We had a conversation about this earlier.

Thanks.

[Stirk]

Yes, any unique unit really uses the Angel Template.

There is no Angel Template. There has never been an Angel Template. This has always been the Angel Template.

5pts total. We had a conversation about this earlier.

Thanks.

That Angel Template uses 10pts. You would need to add a Hindrance to each just to be usable