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[Cthulhu]

I've never had a siege or a megabeast, the farthest I've ever gotten is goblin ambushes.  I'd like to have an idea of how to make a defensible entrance before I need one, and I was wondering.  How do you people do entrance halls when digging into a rock face?  How long, how wide?  Are there areas on the sides where archers can shoot through fortifications?  Do you put the fortifications on the Z-level above the fortress?  These are important questions.  Right now my entrance is 2 wide and about half a screen long, with nothing on the sides, and a full Z-level of rock for above-ground fortifications.

[DreaDFanG]

I just dig a multi Z level enterance that lets archers shoots through,
its better if you leave room in your structures to let water or lava into it.

[ June 01, 2008: Message edited by: DreaDFanG ]

[Shamasu]

I usually dig into a cliff (never from the top). My entrance tunnels are usually about 30-40 tiles long, 3 tiles wide (you need 3 tiles wide if you want wagons to be able to enter). I also either make the end of the tunnel a turn, or a fork. This way there's no direct line of fire through the entrance tunnel. After then turn I usually dig out a 10x10 or so chamber for the trade depot and some stairs going down for the fort proper. Then I fill the entrance hall with traps. My forts always only have the one entrance.

PS. If I can find a natural valley on the map, I put my entrance at the end of it.  The problem with having an all underground entrance tunnel, is that if you tell your dwarves to say inside, they'll collect the beginning of the tunnel and still get shot up. If on the other hand there's a canyon filled with traps before the actual fort entrance, the dwarves will hang back where to outside turns to inside.

So I guess what it boiles down to is:
- trade depot inside, 3 tile wide tunnel to it
- make sure there's at least some outside tiles between your trap array and the actual fort proper. if there are corner in the way, that's even better.

[ June 01, 2008: Message edited by: Shamasu ]

[Moogie]

I usually go for something like this. Two 10-tile-length bridges connect to a central block of floor over a deep channeled pit. One (or both) sides of the tunnel are hollowed out and the walls made into fortifications where Marksdwarves can shoot out at invaders across the pit. The area where both bridges meet in the middle contain weapon & cage traps.

The innermost bridge is raisable and is used when a wall is needed to shield the inner fortress from arrow fire. The outer bridge is retractable to drop enemies into the pit, which I aim to be at least 10z deep at minimum.

The floors just before the inner bridge are channeled all the way to the surface. This creates an 'outside' buffer to keep civilian dwarves inside with the "dwarves stay inside" order. The area around the top level is enclosed with a wall to prevent enemies shooting down into my fort.

code:

#################
................#    <-- Hollow hallway with stationed marksdwarves
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,#    <-- Fortified wall overlooking pit
________________#
________________#    <-- Channeled pit
________________#
=====o...o======o        3-tile-wide pathway into fortress lobby (Depot access)
      .T.            <-- Central floor area for cage/weapon traps (failsafe #1)
=====o...o======o        Retractable bridge (failsafe #2)
#################    <-- Southern wall
Key:
# = Wall
. = Floor
, = Fortification
_ = Channel
T = Trapped area
o=o = Bridge

[Cthulhu]

Hmm.  Well, I missed the first caravan, so I can't start on metal.  Maybe I'll just abandon and try one of these.

[Ubersoldat]

I build a castle-like exterior with a moat and all, and just have multiple hatches going down into the fort proper. I only have two gates to worry about, and I can easily seal those off by retracting the bridge.

Or, you can always go with the best form of defense: a wall of champions in full plate armor. It took awhile to find all the body parts after my last goblin siege.

[Hishan]

I have three bridges one after the other, with no space in between, and a deep pit beneath them. I suppost them on the side walls too. Then because the invaders run to your door, you can retract the bridges in a sequence such that you will always kill an invader (becasue they always try to run forward)

This also  means I don't really need a military because ive killed whole seiges in this way.

[Duke 2.0]

quote:Originally posted by Ubersoldat:
<STRONG>I build a castle-like exterior with a moat and all, and just have multiple hatches going down into the fort proper. I only have two gates to worry about, and I can easily seal those off by retracting the bridge.
</STRONG>

I do this too. It allows for some rather nice fort designs that don't need to be bogged down by any military planning.

Recently i tried to make a bunch of towers, each floor being rather small and connected to other towers by large bridges. There is only one tower that has access to the outside world, which is defended heavily by my military.

Sure most of the fortress is considered outside, but due to some clever diverting of a river I have a choke-pint filled with animals that will detect ambushes. Thus I have time to recruit my head woodcutter who is the captain of a squad involving everybody that goes outside. Except for haulers, if they are stuck outside they make a last stand with whatever weapons the last goblins dropped.

I love my towers.

[JustinKace]

I too, build an external castle style wall, to avoid the problem of my curious dwarfs poking their heads out in times of trouble. My towers are generally three levels with fortifications at the top level only. The only way into the towers is through underground tunnels, the only appropriate entrance for true dwarfs! I use pumps to raise water so that I can make pretty waterfalls to fill my moat and use pressure plates to stop them overflowing.

My dwarfs still often get caught outside and mashed by nasty goblins. I have recently though it may be a good idea to make little scattered bolt holes over the map, so woodcutting dwarfs may dash for them and into the safety of the underground tunnels they contain (locking the doors behind them of course...)

Raised fortified towers make your marksdwarfs a lot more efficient.  

[Paul Gross]

I tend to use multiple spiral staircase layouts in a cube style fort and stick all defenses outside in a castle form using walls built of stone.

I've had no luck putting defenses underground, the civilians just love to get in the way.  If you put your primary defense outside and abuse the pathfinding of the enemy AI a bit you can construct a very potent defense very easily.  Just make sure that the entrance to your dig site (above ground location) is safe and you won't have many civilian pileups.

Example:

code:

#   #########
#           #
#           #
# #######   #
# #         #
# #         #
# #   #######
#           #
#           #
#           #
#####       #
# >      rrr#
#           #
#############
# ... Wall
> ... Stairs down
r ... Ramp access for Depot

This is pretty much failsafe for me.  You have a 3 tile wide route to a ramp that leads to your fortresses trade depot (probably locked off), and a entrance to your fortress which isn't in plain sight of any incoming goblins.  You also have abusive AI pathing by funneling all the goblins invaders down the skinny path on the left, so you can put your traps there and have maximum efficiency.  Building a tower in any corner with fortifications gives marksmen a good position as well.  No room for siege but I don't think siege is worth the effort due to the range of panic on civilians.  All my forts have this layout concept and goblins are never ever a problem.

One alternative I thought up is to put an outside-inside-outside path to your fortress.  So incoming goblins must walk to your fortress, go underground (and encounter you're underground defenses) then go back above ground again before going into your main fortress.  Your "Dwarves stay Indoors" order then will prevent civilians from ever accessing your underground defensive area.  The problem I foresee though is that they'll never leave the underground defensive area either (herbalists, fisherdwarves, hunters, woodgatherers, etc).  Some day I'll think up something that will work, as building outside is extremely tedious, especially when you get ambushed while building it.

[slMagnvox]

I tried something new in my latest fort, a sort of Dwarven Hedgehog.  A kind of traditional entryway includes a 3x wide drawbridge to allow wagons but levers closed when the siege comes.  Once the bridge is up, the only way in is through a maze of 2x2 rock walls.  My military is stationed on the near side of the hedgehog and invaders have to wind their way between the columns.  It was actually rather effective as all the obstacles break the goblin archer's line of sight and by the time they're afforded a clear shot they're just in time to get a hammer in the face.

I used this system kind of on its own as my military was all Hammer and Speardwarves and took a few casualties, but much fewer than if I had tried to meet the goblins after 200 some yards of missile fire.  But it is a very effective fortification to protect your melee dwarves and even the battlefield, include it in your plans and make some towers for archers a few z-levels above and you'll have a very powerful fighting defense.

[Lotus]

Three 10 tile long 3 wide bridges. With a pull of a lever the two outermost ones raise towards the middle one, while the middle one retracts down to my arena filled with all sorts of nasties.

[Samyotix]

I went for the lazy approach ... minefields.

Remove natural ramps and/or dig some channels to make a wide path to your fortress ... build some walls and/or fortifications, leaving 3 tile wide gaps, to force everyone into a slight zig-zag course - this will make them use the same tiles very often, and annoys goblin bowmen in case any should sneak that close.

Then ... build dozens traps, stone fall at first, later upgrade to weapons traps.

Anyone approaching the Inner Walls (behind the farming and outdoor storage courtyard) would've to go through say 3 or 4 such gates in a zigzag course. It slows the traders a bit, but they don't seem to mind much.
Then ... add a large number of traps in the area before the gate farthest away from your entrance ... any goblins who approach will have to go through there to even get to the trapped 'labyrinth'. I station my soldiers there, at the back of the 'battlefield' spiked with the weapons of the previous seasons' invaders ... mainly to polish off fleeing goblins.

[ June 02, 2008: Message edited by: Samyotix ]

[Cthulhu]

Wait, do traps still affect traders?

[Captain Xenon]

the longer you play, the more you learn, and the more you with you did stuff differently. such is life.

one lesson that takes longer to learn is this: if its a major hallway, it MUST be at least 2 wide. this matters the most between your food storage and legendary dining room. If your fort has only 1 door, make it apply from your entrance hall to your storage areas. 2-wide is the widest your entry should bem you need those doors.

the entrance should, ultimately, be far enough from everything else that you can build above and below it, so you can add in your aqueducts (or magma floods) when your ready for them.

i like to work with a cage trap before a door, and then alternating stonefall and weapon traps, using large serrated glass and wooden spiked balls for most of it.

for best results, have a bridge over a pit, then your depot, then a stair down and a short hall of traps, and a door before your storage areas. then put the main entrance of 10,000 traps somewhere else. you WILL get a seige during trade, and you need to be able to protect your depot (trolls will destroy it if they can).

aboveground, build up a tower overlooking your entrance. build it tall, put an ammo stockpile of metal bolts inside, and fortify the top. your archers go there, where they can shoot death down on the invaders that walk into the traps. make sure you can lock them up there, where its reasonably safe.

there should be a bridge outside your entrance over a pit, with remote retraction. this can be usefull if you can get the goblins inside before they try to flee, and cut off their escape so your archers can have fun. archers are #1 for killing titans.

cage trap is on the outermost layer, so you can catch the mega-beasts before you lose doors. tame the dragons and have fun.

for a good siege, invaders need to be forced into at least 20 traps imho. that should be enough to break them. remeber to glass ceiling that trap-passage to help keep dwarves inside, and forbid loot as the enemy dies.