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[Elephant Parade]

Oppose 62, because most of the playerbase is inactive. If they're selected to be Mafia, stuff'll be messed up; if they aren't, the Mafia will practically outnumber the town. This proposal would be cool if

  A) We had more players, and
  B) You replaced "players" with "active players" in the selection process.

A shame we haven't been attracting any new players. I wonder what could possibly be keeping them away? [/sarcasm][/sarcasm][/sarcasm][/sarcasm][/sarcasm][/sarcasm]


Proposal 63 - Truncating Absurd Decimals to Reduce Judge Workload: At the end of the inter-turn process, all monetary values are rounded up to the nearest integer.


Dull, but the day's almost over and I don't feel like making something more interesting.

Welp. He came.

I can't hear your post over the sound of my +10 PLOTS WHO'S THE SNOWBALL KING NOW

[MonkeyMarkMario]

Before all my money is gone: remove money from bank and buy as much land as possible.
Sacrifice all active players money and all money in the banks and lottery and stock market.
Support Proposals 59, 60, 61, 62, 63

Proposal 64 - Land Nerf 2.0: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame). Land no longer gives votes this supersedes any other rule pertaining to land and votes. Fame is nothing more then prestige and can never be used as a usable resource, this supersedes any rule that pertains to fame.

I wish to make an alliance with nav and if you accept I will give you 1 plot and $100 every turn

[Elephant Parade]

Proposal 64 - Land Nerf 2.0: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame). Land no longer gives votes this supersedes any other rule pertaining to land and votes. Fame is nothing more then prestige and can never be used as a usable resource, this supersedes any rule that pertains to fame.

Personally, I'd rather rework land into some kind of consumable resource, but this is okay. It's still exponential, technically, but $10 is practically nothing. This still isn't how I'd like to solve the land problem, though, so I'm not going to support it unless my vote would make the difference between it passing and failing.

Edit: Also, I don't think you can give people land. Or money.

[MonkeyMarkMario]

Change my vote on proposal 62 to oppose.

Proposal 64 - Land Nerf 2.0b: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame). Land no longer gives votes this supersedes any other rule pertaining to land and votes. Fame is nothing more then prestige(at the moment). Land can now be given to other player via selling or gifting. Land decays over time for every land above 50 that you own you will lose 1 land a turn, at 100 2 land, at 150 3 land, and so on(this is based on the fact that at those points you could buy that # of plots a turn from your land, this should put a sue do cap on land that is passable but very hard to overcome).

There is that better Elephant Parade

[Elephant Parade]

Change my vote on proposal 62 to oppose.

Proposal 64 - Land Nerf 2.0b: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame). Land no longer gives votes this supersedes any other rule pertaining to land and votes. Fame is nothing more then prestige(at the moment). Land can now be given to other player via selling or gifting. Land decays over time for every land above 50 that you own you will lose 1 land a turn, at 100 2 land, at 150 3 land, and so on(this is based on the fact that at those points you could buy that # of plots a turn from your land, this should put a sue do cap on land that is passable but very hard to overcome).

There is that better Elephant Parade

The formatting isn't right; the letter is supposed to go after the number.

It's about the same. Land decay basically means you can't go above 50 land, since replacing land will cost as much as it brings in. Selling/gifting land isn't something I'm a fan of, since it allows for free transfer of resources; combined with the alliance win clause—which should probably be removed—it could allow for some serious shenanigans.

Oppose 64b for reasons outlined.

[Person]

To be honest, I'm tempted to reality warp and just kill every rule that bothers me in the slightest. But that seems petty and improper. If I did so, stock would be the next thing I hit. As is, I'm giving people a chance to try and fix things themselves. Also yeah the numbering is wrong on that proposal, making it invalid. You're allowed one invalid proposal per turn though by the way, although you'll still need to make a haiku. Your current one won't count if you do.

[crazyabe]

why would you hit off stock?

I Support 64b.

[BluarianKnight]

So, how exactly do you sign up to this..? I have to ask, because while I think you can just jump in, the OP confused me greatly.

[Person]

Because right now, If you run the numbers its too effective. I don't particularly feel like explaining the concept of effective value today though. In any event, if my math is right, its vastly superior to any other method for making money, including land plots. I'll let someone else do the work of making the effective value more balanced. In any event, I have no intention of messing with stock yet.

Anyway, one of the many reasons I'm not killing rules willy nilly is that I don't want to repel the player's that made those proposals from the game, even if that would mean more new players.

The thing with Nomic is that rule exploits are inevitable. Our game of Nomic has been pretty loose in that respect, in that they've been fairly uncommon, and players have respected the so called spirit of the rules. However, in most Nomic games, a professional player is basically expected to behave as the most dirty lawyer they can possibly imagine.

When it comes down to it, there is no such thing as a "spirit" of the rules in Nomic. The judge can say otherwise all they want, but only if the other players agree with them. You have by the way, which is a merciful thing given how flawed much of the initial set was at first.

It was rather inevitable that eventually a proposal would get passed which should not have, and clearly the beckoning was that rule. Now that we've had a rather enjoyable turn full of exploiting things, I expect many of us will be more vigilant for such things from now on.

Also BluarianKnight, you can just jump in. The Current Rules are in the spoiler labeled as such. Just make a proposal or vote on one. The current proposals have all been placed in the first post for your convenience.

[Person]

Anyway, the most important proposals are the first 18, but up until 30 or so they're also fairly important to remember. The rest are quite complex, but perfectly understandable. By the by, I'll soon be making a proposal that will declare the position of Vice Judge. The Vice Judge will have all the same powers, but none of the duties. Their actions or rulings can of course be over ruled by the current Judge. It'll be more in depth of course, but does the basic concept seem like a good idea?

[FallacyofUrist]

That could work.

I support Proposal 63. For Person's sake.

I oppose all variants of Proposal 64 and Proposal 64 itself. Because I like being rich. And because it says nothing about income. If buying land for 250$ just gave you 10$ immediately, nobody would do it.

[FallacyofUrist]

Poems.

I hate, I hate, your proposal I hate,
I hate, I hate, your proposal abate.
~~~
Your proposal, I say, I hate,
So thus, I say, your proposal abate.
~~~
This enough?

[Person]

Variants are to be given a letter after the proposal number in the usual order (Proposal 18a, Proposal 18b, etc)

As such, there is currently no 64b. The proposer (MonkeyMarkMario) can feel free to write a haiku, and recreate the proposal in proper form if they like, but as is there's no reason to vote on it. I probably should have said this sooner in retrospect but I figured that after Elephant Parade informed them they'd fix things. Also, seeing as there's been absolutely no opposition, I'll be officially enacting my reality warps. As such poems are no longer necessary to make 3 or more opposing votes. Your last one was pretty good though. Also the lottery and bank no longer exist.

[Elephant Parade]

In any event, if my math is right, its vastly superior to any other method for making money, including land plots.

Yeah—your investment always seems to average out to $1167, at least for the values I tried, meaning that a $200 investment nets you more than $900 each turn, on average.

Also, a roll of 10 would allow you to completely eclipse the wealth of anyone who hasn't invested in the stock market.

[Person]

Now then, shall we?

Proposal 59-The sacrifice fix: A player can only sacrifice money they current possess, as listed in their player status.

Proposer: Person
Supporting: Person, "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", TopHat, FallacyofUrist, MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing: Nig-hac'thaa
Total: Passes 5 to 1

Proposal 60 - The Land tax: Starting at the current point in time, Land produces NO cash on it's own; all players must hire Farmers, Each farmer Causes one plot of land to produce 50 cash, Each Farmer costs 50 cash to hire and stack to (2 + Rank) per piece of land, Each round all players of Lord rank or higher send (50 X Rank X Land) cash to the emperor OR Judge depending on whether or not there is a emperor, if this cash is sent to the judge 1/4 is sent to The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa. From this point on; the vault will be rounded to the nearest Hundredth when it would normally go beyond that point. From this point forwards; The Judge will be able to Support or Oppose Proposals s/he did not create; This supersedes any other proposal that would Limit this. From this point forwards, Any thing that is a part of this proposal will be: immune to abolishing; Immune to changes; and Unable to be invalid, Changing anything that would make it so The Emperor's land produces no Cash But still requires farmers for some reason.

Proposer: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth"
Supporting: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", MonkeyMarkMario, Nig-hac'thaa
Opposing: TopHat, FallacyofUrist
Total: Passes 3 to 2

NIG-HAC'THAA WHAT HAVE YOU WROUGHT? Yeah I'm gonna need a better explanation of how this one works. As is its kind of a word salad buffet.

Proposal 61 - Supporting Alliance Proposals: If a Player is a member of an alliance, they may choose to automatically support proposals by members of their Alliance by stating, in this thread, 'I Wish To Support Alliance Proposals'. Once this has been stated, that Player, as long as they are an active player (as defined by rule 41), are considered to have an implied supporting vote for all Proposals made by players who were members of their alliance at the time this statement was most recently made, exactly as the proposer does. Should a player, for whatever reason, Oppose their own Proposal all implicit support votes from Alliance members for that proposal, if any, are removed.
A Player may cease supporting alliance proposals by stating, in this thread, I Wish To Cease Supporting Alliance Proposals. From that point on the Player no longer automatically supports alliance proposals as detailed above until they once again state they wish to do so (by stating, in this thread, 'I Wish To Support Alliance Proposals'. Implicit votes in effect when a Player ceases to support Alliance Proposals remain in effect.

Proposer: TopHat
Supporting: TopHat, FallacyofUrist, MonkeyMarkMario, Nig-hac'thaa
Opposing:
Total: Passes 4 to 0

Proposal 62 - Mafia
When this proposal is passed, 2 of the players of this game are selected to be Mafia. The rest are selected to be Town. The Judge cannot be selected to be either.
The two players selected to be Mafia are informed of this, and they are also informed of who the other Mafia player is.
Each player selected to be Town is informed that they are Town, but not who the other Town are and who the Mafia are.
This is all done via PM.

John(you are Mafia. Ted is mafia also.)
Ted(you are Mafia. John is mafia also.)
Sue(you are Town.)
Mary(you are Town.)
James(you are Town.)
Tassadar(you are Town.)
Ragnar(you are Town.)
Seraph(you are Town.)

All players who are Town win when there are no Mafia players in the game.
All players who are Mafia win when the number of players who are Town is less than or equal to the number of players who are Mafia.

Proposer: FallacyofUrist
Supporting: FallacyofUrist, "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", Nig-hac'thaa
Opposing: Elephant Parade, MonkeyMarkMario
Total: Passes 3 to 2

So, the Judge isn't town or mafia eh? Interesting, but sensible. This could be interesting to watch, but it depends on who the mafia is. It should also be noted that new players after this point are neither town nor mafia.

Proposal 63 - Truncating Absurd Decimals to Reduce Judge Workload: At the end of the inter-turn process, all monetary values are rounded up to the nearest integer.

Proposer: Elephant Parade
Supporting: Elephant Parade, MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing: Nig-hac'thaa
Total: Passes 2 to 1

Thank ye.

Proposal 64 - Land Nerf 2.0: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame). Land no longer gives votes this supersedes any other rule pertaining to land and votes. Fame is nothing more then prestige and can never be used as a usable resource, this supersedes any rule that pertains to fame.

Proposer: MonkeyMarkMario
Supporting: MonkeyMarkMario, Nig-hac'thaa
Opposing: FallacyofUrist
Total: Passes 2 to 1

Truly allowing Nig-hac'thaa to vote was one of my greatest ideas yet. ffff its gonna take me a while to reconcile those two land rules.

Stock: Players can invest in stock now. Stock is on day 3. Rolled 9, all investments multiplied by 5.

Person: $0
Iituem: $0
Sensei: $0
"Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth": $0
FallacyofUrist: $0
TopHat: $0
MonkeyMarkMario: $0
Elephant Parade: $0
NAV: $0

A new turn begins?

Right here's how land works right now. The first land proposal has more weight then the second, thus here's how things stand.

Land produces no cash right now. All players send money equal to (50 x Rank x Land) to the Judge or Holy Emperor (there is no no Holy Emperor.) Of this cash (currently 0, as rank is undefined) 25% goes to the Vault of Nig-hac'thaa. Also I can now support or oppose proposals again I guess. Also the proposal is immune to changes but not necessarily the rule it creates. Lands past 10 still currently produce fame, as a farmer is not required for this. However, they don't produce $10 on their own as this would contradict the other rule.

Player Statuses:

Person: A player. The judge. Holds the title of Lord. 34 plots of land. $850. 6 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.
Iituem: A player.  $500. 0 Holy Imperial Elector Vote.
Sensei: A player.  $500. 1 Holy Imperial Elector Vote.
crazyabe: A player. Holds the title of "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth". Holds the title of Lord. 28 plots of land. $600. 3 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.
FallacyofUrist: A player. Holds the title of landowner. 46 plots of land. $550, 3 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.
TopHat: A player. Holds the title of landowner. 8 plots of land. $850. 4 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.
MonkeyMarkMario: A player. Holds the title of Lord. 22 plots of land. $600. 3 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. 
Elephant Parade: A player. Holds the title of Lord. 33 plots of land. $550. 5 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. 
NAV: A player. $1000. 0 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.
Nig-hac'thaa: A player. $500. The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa: $9000

Rules Lawyers Alliance Account: $50
TopHat-Elephant Parade Alliance Account: $50