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[Person]

To be honest, I share many of Elephant's views when it comes to money. I really wasn't expecting things to get out of hand so quickly, but there's not much to be done at this point other than damage control at the moment. Try to keep things from accelerating too much, at the very least.

You see, when it comes down to it Nomic is a game, and thus prone to competition. However, it is also a game about making a game, at least on a meta level, so we should be trying to make a good one. The rules should reflect that somewhat. I don't expect people to work in harmony or anything, but when you make a proposal, consider the continued health of the game. A certain amount of complexity is inevitable, sure, but what we have now is basically runaway number inflation at its finest. In a way, I guess I'm glad to see firsthand why a number of developing nations have learned that "print more money" is generally not a good idea.

I'll try and contact the older players to see if they still have interest, so maybe they can chip in their votes and balance things out, but I don't expect much honestly. Adapting to this many changes in the rules would be kind of difficult, such that even a new player might be better off than a returning player, given that they'd have to go through all the rules anyway. A returning player would likely have to reconcile what it was then with what it is now.

Anyway, I oppose Proposal 54. Maybe I'll rework it at a later date. There's certainly something there, but it needs more work. It also doesn't really mesh well with what I've said above. It would be interesting, certainly, but the first person to get rolled would almost certainly gain an absurd advantage in the short term, making catching up but a dream.

[MonkeyMarkMario]

I have like 5 more rules and all my rule balance each other out. The problem is there are others who try to put op stuff in when there is already temp-op stuff. Sigh, maybe my rules should be my own game, it would be fun but don't know if I would do it. This kind of game is really sporadic and leans heavily towards chaos.

[Person]

Proposal 53 - Reality Warp: At any time during a turn, the Judge may Reality Warp to make something true(of his/her choice) within this game. This cannot be used to modify/supersede/override this rule in any way. The Reality Warp may be cancelled if a supermajority of players wish it to be so, and/or a majority of players plus the Holy Emperor, at which point the Judge will be unable to Reality Warp for the remainder of the turn.

Proposer: FallacyofUrist
Supporting: FallacyofUrist, "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", Elephant Parade, MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing:
Total: Passes 4 to 0

Proposal 54 - The Beckoning: At any time player can sacrifice(remove $) money. This sacrificed money goes into a special storage area known as The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa. For every $100 stored in The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa, there is a 1% chance that at 17:00 (5:00 PM) eastern standard time, Nig-hac'thaa (henceforth known as HE) COMES. When HE COMES, HE chooses a random active player from among those who have CALLED HIS WRATH. (Any player that has ever sacrificed money) To that player, he offers a DECISION via private message. Should a player desire the results of this DECISION, they must reply in the affirmative. If they do not, except where stated otherwise, nothing happens.
Afterward, HE gains a position as a player for the rest of the game, voting at random AS HE WILLS IT on all proposals from now on. (HE Supports or opposes every proposal make henceforth. 50% chance of either option.) The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa becomes a part of HIS player status. If HE would lose this game, then instead, HE wins, ending the game. The sole exception is if HE forfeits as a result of DECISION 8.
A list of DECISION's follows.

1: You gain no income next turn. "You are not deserving of my power. A mere glimpse of my visage is reward enough." This DECISION occurs regardless of whether the player replies in the affirmative.
2: HE condemns a specified proposal. It gains an opposing vote that has UNIMAGINABLE POWER from HIM, preventing that proposal from passing along with any others that proposer has proposed this turn. "This realm sickens me. It is far too orderly for my liking."
3: HE supports a specified proposal. The chosen proposal must have been made before HE contacted that player. That proposal gains supporting votes from every player in the game. These votes cannot be changed or removed. "They are but slaves to my power."
4: HE grants you great material wealth. Choose one of the following: a. Next turn your income is multiplied by 2, just once. b. Gain 10 of any of the following: Holy Imperial Elector Votes, Plots of Land, or Game Tickets. c. Remove 5% of the total money in the bank evenly distributed from each account with more than $0 in it, and add it to a chosen player's bank account. "You have given me a body. For that, your own body should be rewarded."
5: HE grants you a portion of his WRATH. You can remove any one rule not in the initial set from the game. This power lasts until you use it, but once you do a single time, it fades away. "For a brief moment, you will become as my avatar in this world."
6: HE carves off a fragment of HIS being, granting you a Staff of Apotheosis. With this staff, once every 5 turns that player can call HIM forth to make a DECISION. If a player receives this result after they have a Staff of Apotheosis, it is removed. In that event, for the next 3 turns that player can receive no money from any source. "I will allow you to truly command me for a time. But be warned. Abuse of my power will not come lightly." This DECISION occurs regardless of whether the player replies in the affirmative.
7: HE carves off a fragment of HIS being, placing a SPAWN OF THE BEAST into play. At the start of each turn This SPAWN OF THE BEAST will remove 50% of a random active player's income and add it to The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa, but only if that player did not sacrifice at least $250 last turn. If this result occurs after a SPAWN OF THE BEAST is in play, then HE instead removes a chosen player's income next turn, and adds it the The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa. This DECISION occurs regardless of whether the player replies in the affirmative. "They will come to fear me, and rightfully so."
8: HE moves on from this world, and so too does this rule. As a player, this counts as HIM forfeiting. If any player's are in possession of a Staff of Apotheosis, they are removed. The SPAWN OF THE BEAST is also removed from play. This result cannot occur until at least 10 other DECISION's have been made, including one of each result. This DECISION occurs regardless of whether the player replies in the affirmative.

Afterward the DECISION is made, all money stored in The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa is removed.

Proposer: Person
Supporting: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", FallacyofUrist, MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing: Person, Elephant Parade
Total: Passes 3 to 2

Proposal 55 - Ending Extreme Snowballing / Total Money Rebalance: This law is divided into three parts.

Part I: Abolish the following rules:

• Rule 37, the non-functioning extra-vote law that would be horrible if it did work
• Rule 39, because it allows for exponential gain and interferes with future sections of this proposal
• Rule 50, because the average gain is incredibly high; see Fig. 1 (contained in another post) for a breakdown

Part II: Remove the following sections from existing laws:

• Proposal 32: "Players who own land get $50 income per plot."
• Proposal 25: "500$: Acquire one Holy Imperial Elector Vote."

Part 2.5: Transfer all money from players' bank accounts to their statuses. If this would give them more than $3000, any excess is converted into Extra Proposal Tickets at a rate of 1/$1000. Extra Proposal Tickets may be used in place of $1000 to create an extra proposal, as per the appropriate rule.

Part III: Add the following rules:

• Each player has a wallet. This wallet can hold a maximum of $3000. Any income that brings them above this limit, end-of-turn or otherwise, is lost forever. (At the time of the law's passing, all players with more than $3000 lose money until they have only $3000.)
• A player can hold no more than 1 Holy Imperial Elector vote. (At the time of this law's passing, all players with more than 1 Holy Imperial Elector vote lose votes until they have only 1 remaining.)

Proposer: Elephant Parade
Supporting: Elephant Parade, NAV(Counts as two)
Opposing: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth", FallacyofUrist, MonkeyMarkMario
Total: Does not pass 3 to 3

Proposal 56 - Crazyabe's cash adjustment strategy: when a player joins, over The First 4 turns they are involved with this Game; they gain: 1/4 of the average of plots of land, 1/400 the Total of all cash currently held by players that have played since before the date of 1/13/15, and one Holy Imperial Elector Vote, EACH DAY.

Proposer: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth"
Supporting: "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth"
Opposing: Elephant Parade, MonkeyMarkMario
Total: Does not pass 1 to 2

Proposal 57 - New Player Incentive: New Players, Starting with the turn Before this was passed get a number of plots equal to the highest players/2 (example: Person has 50(highest) Bob joins and gets 25) and money equal to Wealthiest Player's money/2 - 100 (example Person has $2000 Bob joins and gets $900)

Proposer: MonkeyMarkMario
Supporting: MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing:
Total: Does not pass 1 to 0

Proposal 58- Land Nerf: Land now give $10 per plot but past 10 plots Half your plots no longer give you money but .1 fame/plot, .1 food/plot, .1 manpower/plot allocated to your liking. (Ex. Person has 30 plots, 15 give $150/turn, 15 1.5 fame).

Proposer: MonkeyMarkMario
Supporting: MonkeyMarkMario
Opposing:
Total: Does not pass 1 to 0

The TopHat-Elephant Parade Alliance has formed.


The Lottery: This shows the bets of every player that uses it in one place, for much the same reason as I have the proposals in this post.

Person: $0
Iituem: $0
Sensei: $0
"Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth": $0
FallacyofUrist: $0
TopHat: $0
MonkeyMarkMario: $0
Elephant Parade: $0
NAV: $0

Stock: Players can invest in stock now.

Stock roll for day 1: 1. All investments divided by 10.

Person: $20
Iituem: $0
Sensei: $0
"Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth": $0
FallacyofUrist: $0
TopHat: $0
MonkeyMarkMario: $10
Elephant Parade: $20
NAV: $0

A new turn begins.

The Bank: Each player has an account here. I'm putting Alliance Accounts here too for conveniance, though I'm not sure if they're really a part of the bank or not. for the purpose of multipliers, I'm assuming they aren't.

Person: $205.652362 (This is really getting out of hand)
Iituem: $0
Sensei: $0
"Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth": $2,358.552505
FallacyofUrist: $0
TopHat: $0
MonkeyMarkMario: $617.1605
Elephant Parade: $306.75618
NAV: $0

Total: $3,488.121547
Current Multiplier: 1.01

Rules Lawyers Alliance Account: $845
TopHat-Elephant Parade Alliance Account: $255
The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa: $0

Player Statuses:

Person: A player. The judge. Holds the title of Lord. 34 plots of land. $2090. 5 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. Extra Votes: 3.4 Achievements: Extra Vote
Iituem: A player.  $4500. 0 Holy Imperial Elector Vote.
Sensei: A player.  $4500. 1 Holy Imperial Elector Vote.
crazyabe: A player. Holds the title of "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth". Holds the title of Lord. 28 plots of land. $1900. 2 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. Extra Votes: 2.8 Achievements: Extra Vote
FallacyofUrist: A player. Holds the title of landowner. 36 plots of land. $2525, 2 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. Extra Votes: 3.6 Achievements: Extra Vote
TopHat: A player. Holds the title of landowner. 8 plots of land.  $2910. 3 Holy Imperial Elector Votes. Extra Votes: .8
MonkeyMarkMario: A player. Holds the title of Lord. 22 plots of land. $1700. 2 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.  Extra Votes: 2.2 Achievements: Extra Vote
Elephant Parade: A player. Holds the title of Lord. 23 plots of land. $1285. 4 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.  Extra Votes: 2.3 Achievements: Extra Vote
NAV: A player. $500. 0 Holy Imperial Elector Votes.

I started writing this turn over an hour and a half ago. I thought I was prepared. I was not. Also welcome to the game NAV. Its kind of a mess right now but have fun.

[Elephant Parade]

warning: we are now entering the dire prophecy zone

please buckle your sealtbelts

***cut to grimy dystopian city***

it is the year 2017. after a full year of nomic, the rich have ten quintillion times as much money as the poor, because exponential income is bad. as a result of this, the gap between players developed into an actual, physical ravine, stranding each player on their own plots of land. even the richest players find that their ten-million plot landscapes, while great for golf, are still pretty lonely if you're stuck there alone. also, nobody ever goes to the city because all the land has been bought or something.

everyone is unhappy forever

the end

(moral of the story: exponential gain = )

[Person]

I think it might be time to abuse my reality warp powers, now that I have them. Still, I'm yet unsure what my first target should be. I'll think about that while I take a break from nearly 2 hours of typing.

[Elephant Parade]

I think it might be time to abuse my reality warp powers, now that I have them. Still, I'm yet unsure what my first target should be. I'll think about that while I take a break from nearly 2 hours of typing.

Target exponential gain! It's your last chance to salvage the game for new players!

Edit: In particular, you might want to target the bank, since it likely creates a lot of work for you.

[FallacyofUrist]

MWAHAHA!(don't forget that they are counterable, given a supermajority...)

Ahem. Now to exploit loopholes.

I purchase as many plots of land as I can using my money, then I put the rest in the lottery.

Also... I sacrifice all of Elephant Parade's money.

[Elephant Parade]

MWAHAHA!(don't forget that they are counterable, given a supermajority...)

Ahem. Now to exploit loopholes.

I purchase as many plots of land as I can using my money, then I put the rest in the lottery.

Also... I sacrifice all of Elephant Parade's money.

I sacrifice all of FallacyofUrist's money.
I sacrifice all of "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth"'s money.
I sacrifice all money left in bank accounts.
I sacrifice all money left in Alliance Accounts.

What did you think was going to happen?

Edit: If sacrifices happen after everything else, bring my investment back up to $200 and buy as many plots of land as possible.

[Elephant Parade]

I sacrifice all of all MonkeyMarkMario's money.
I sacrifice all of Person's money.
I sacrifice all money remaining in the stock market.

[Elephant Parade]

I'm glad to see that Team Rich People has gone into full-on confrontation mode. Don't worry: if exponential gain doesn't end, you'll be the only ones playing the game; you won't be able to lose!

[Person]

Well, I'm not sure how I missed something so obvious. In a way though, I'm okay with this outcome. At most it destroys a turn of income, and now we can fix it.

Proposal 59-The sacrifice fix/b]: A player can only sacrifice money they current posess, as listed in their player status.

[Person]

Well I totally messed up those tags by accident. Ah well.

[crazyabe]

I Support Proposal 59.

Proposal 60 - The Land tax: Starting at the current point in time, Land produces NO cash on it's own; all players must hire Farmers, Each farmer Causes one plot of land to produce 50 cash, Each Farmer costs 50 cash to hire and stack to (2 + Rank) per piece of land, Each round all players of Lord rank or higher send (50 X Rank X Land) cash to the emperor OR Judge depending on whether or not there is a emperor, if this cash is sent to the judge 1/4 is sent to The Vault of Nig-hac'thaa. From this point on; the vault will be rounded to the nearest Hundredth when it would normally go beyond that point. From this point forwards; The Judge will be able to Support or Oppose Proposals s/he did not create; This supersedes any other proposal that would Limit this. From this point forwards, Any thing that is a part of this proposal will be: immune to abolishing; Immune to changes; and Unable to be invalid, Changing anything that would make it so The Emperor's land produces no Cash But still requires farmers for some reason.

[Person]

Well, he is literally guaranteed to come this turn to either FallacyofUrist or Elephant Parade, so prepare yourselves.

I Reality warp to remove rule 39.

A supermajority (two thirds of all players) must oppose this to prevent it. A supermajority is currently 7 out of the 9 players. Given that some of them aren't particularly active, and one of them is me, I wish you luck. Believe you me, I could do far worse things with this power, but I fully intend to resist the temptation. One thing at a time though.

[Person]

Honestly the bank was a terrible design from the start. There's so many things wrong with it, and almost no incentive to use it with with the interest being so low. I didn't do the math on land when I made it, so I figured capping it at 20% was fine. But then someone pointed out that land is already a 20% return by itself, and that rather defeated the purpose, so people just put their spare money in it, making a lot of work for me, but almost no return. In all likelihood, I should probably be hitting how plots of land work first, but the bank is really an eyesore for me. (This chair)