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Author Topic: A Game of Nomic: Turn 23: Game Over  (Read 16424 times)

crazyabe

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 8: Banks and Landowning
« Reply #165 on: January 10, 2016, 02:43:55 pm »

I like Proposal 45 but 'land owner is given at 1 not 10 so...

Proposal 45a - New Nobility Modify: each time a player gains (10x previous Number) of land they get a title, Starting at 1 with the currently Available title of "Land owner" these titles will be applied to the player replacing the previous title, or modifying a title if they already have it included in there name(s). the titles go in the order of: "Land owner"(1) "Lord OR Lady"(10) "Baron OR Baroness"(100) "Viscount OR Viscountess"(1,000) "Earl OR Count OR Countess"(10,000) "Marquess OR Marchioness"(100,000) "Duke OR Duchess"(1,000,000) "Prince OR Princess"(10,000,000).

I changed everything by removing 1 zero on each and added commas to read it easier.
Support Proposal 45
Buy 6 plots of land. Put $500 in the bank.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2016, 02:48:27 pm »

I like Proposal 45 but 'land owner is given at 1 not 10 so...

Proposal 45a - New Nobility Modify: each time a player gains (10x previous Number) of land they get a title, Starting at 1 with the currently Available title of "Land owner" these titles will be applied to the player replacing the previous title, or modifying a title if they already have it included in there name(s). the titles go in the order of: "Land owner"(1) "Lord OR Lady"(10) "Baron OR Baroness"(100) "Viscount OR Viscountess"(1,000) "Earl OR Count OR Countess"(10,000) "Marquess OR Marchioness"(100,000) "Duke OR Duchess"(1,000,000) "Prince OR Princess"(10,000,000).

I changed everything by removing 1 zero on each and added commas to read it easier.
Support Proposal 45
Buy 6 plots of land. Put $500 in the bank.
That was an invalid proposal; it was a variant of your 46, not my 45.
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crazyabe

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2016, 02:54:49 pm »

But do to miss-numbering is "Proposal 45a".
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Elephant Parade

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2016, 02:56:24 pm »

But do to miss-numbering is "Proposal 45a".
But since it doesn't exist—it's an invalid proposal—you can't vote on it.

Or, well, you can, but nothing will happen. I was kind of concerned that the oppose would transfer to 45, somehow, but that probably wouldn't happen.
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MonkeyMarkMario

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2016, 02:57:55 pm »

To be on the safe side here is my haiku:
No more haiku please
Haiku make thread messy too
No more haiku please
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MonkeyMarkMario

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2016, 02:59:58 pm »

I Oppose Proposal 47 and all variants.
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Any future games will be simpler in nature, I have a bad habit of biting off more than I can chew. Also hoping for more players in them.

I have Discord for my games now(not necessary to play, tho might be easier to contact me): https://discord.gg/DuaARAZ

Person

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2016, 03:20:27 pm »

Oh dear. Proposal 27:  Failed proposals make the person that proposed the proposal to lose 1 Imperial Elector Votes, with 0 being the minimum you can have.

Proposer: MonkeyMarkMario

Supporting: MonkeyMarkMario(Counts as two), Person, FallacyofUrist

Opposing:

Total: Passes 4 to 0

Do you see this proposal. I... kind of forgot about it. So um. Well. And there's been a lot of failed proposals since. Boy, am I really bad at this or what? How should I fix this? Uh. Actually then again, technically proposals don't "Fail" under the current rules. They just don't pass. But uh, that's not really the spirit of this rule is it. However, given that's how it reads, that's the ruling I'm going to use because good lord how much would it invalidate if it did anything? Yeah. That's what I'll do. So, in order to fix a lot of things, I'm going to be proposing a gigantic proposal to hammer away lot of problems. Be prepared.

Note that that wasn't my proposal. I was referring to its proposal number as emphasis that there's been a lot of proposals since... Oh to hell with it, haiku time. I'm allowed one invalid proposal anyway. Also a proposal that was invalid before the post it is in was edited does not because more invalid when the post it is in was edited. I can't believe I did this.

I made some mistakes
Some were dumber than others
This one was just silly

Super edit combo!: Also it makes players lose an Imperial Elector Vote, not a Holy Imperial Elector Vote. The former don't exist.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 03:32:27 pm by Person »
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Elephant Parade

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2016, 03:28:54 pm »

Proposal 27 should be abolished anyway. People shouldn't be discouraged from taking risks!

Edit: I have a proposal backlog, though, so I can't really do that. One of those proposals is going to allow for a free abolish every turn or two, at least.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 03:30:29 pm by Elephant Parade »
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Person

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2016, 03:40:10 pm »

Behold, the hammer of rule alterations!

Proposal 48 - The First Great Rule Cleanup: Alter rule 5 to remove the sentence "If a player does not post in the thread for over a week, they shall be considered to have forfeited the game." Alter rule 12 by adding the following sentence. "Turns start at 12:00 PP Eastern standard time, and end at 11:59 AM Eastern standard time. Alter rule 13 to the following. "The game ends when one player has at least $100,000. In that event, the player with the most money is declared the winner. Alter the final sentence of rule 14 to the following "A majority vote on a proposal is defined as more than half the votes cast on that proposal." Alter rule 23 by adding the following sentence. "A clear majority vote means that more than half the Holy Imperial Elector Votes cast must be on a single player." Alter rule 29 to read as follows "If a player's proposal does not pass, then they lose 1 Holy Imperial Elector vote, unless that would reduce that player's amount of Holy Imperial Electors Votes below 0." Alter rule 33 to read as follows "Any player already opposing three or more proposals—and wishing to oppose another—must compose a poem insulting at least one of the following:
    1. The contents of the proposal
    2. The character of the proposer and/or the proposal's supporters
    3. A poem previously composed by the proposer"
Alter rule 37 to read as follows "Each plot of land someone has gives them an extra .1 vote. Players with 10+ plots now gain the achievement Extra vote."

I want to alter rule 12 because honestly 10am is pushing it for me being able to update 100% of the time. 12 noon would just make things easier, and I feel like making each turn take half of each day would encourage more discussion overall with more people being able to check in more often. Of course not everyone is in Eastern standard time like me, but eh. Something something sacrifices. Altering rule 13 is because honestly I'd rather have an absurd goal than no goal. I alter rule 14 because the previous form can be interpreted as half the votes on every proposal in the game (if players have made 20 votes on all collective proposals, yours needs 11 to pass.) This is obviously absurd, but also a valid interpretation I feel the need to squash. Also, as much as I'd love to kill the haiku rules, that's far too ambitious. The alteration of rule 23 should be obvious. Rule 29 is kind of a mess, but I'm altering it instead of removing it because of... reasons? Rule 33 is just because I kind of feel bad for Elephant parade, but its no less valid. It is ambiguous as worded after all. I was tempted to try and give the Judge tie breaker priveleges, but relented. Maybe another time. Rule 37 now gives players an extra vote instead of and extra vote. Also the removal of some redundant words. Each plot gives an extra .1 vote per plot anyone? That would mean if you have 10 plots, each plot would give 1 extra vote. 11 makes 1.1 per plot, etc. Not a good thing, but a legal interpretation none the less.
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crazyabe

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2016, 03:45:13 pm »

I Oppose Proposal 48.
That is NOT an abserd goal when we will eventualy get to the point where everyone is making 500000 per round...
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Person

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2016, 04:03:40 pm »

40 plots of land is $2000. Including the base $500, It would take 40 turns under such conditions to reach that goal. No one has more than half that number of plots yet. Adding in the bank probably won't produce anywhere near that amount for a long time yet. Basically. my alteration changed the definition for when the game ends by adding a goal we probably won't hit for a minimum of 30 turns, a full months of play. In other words, the goal is about 30 turns away, when the previous goal of "after 30 turns" would likely have been met sooner. Someone will change the goal by then. Alterations are always possible of course. I figured there would be a few bits people might find objectionable. By the way, can I vote on variants of my proposals? I do count as the proposer in that case, so I'm inclined to say yes. Still, I'd like everyone's opinion on that.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2016, 04:05:38 pm »

Oppose 48. LIST OF HATE  STRONG DISLIKE WITH THE OCCASIONAL COMPLIMENT MIXED OPINIONS:

  • Money is a silly way to win, since money is—currently, at least—based all but entirely on how long you've been playing, and partially on how uncontroversial your proposals have been.
  • What happens when a turn isn't going? If the judge fails to post for a certain length of time, can we get a backup to process the turn? Is a day really the right length of time for a turn? It's a cool idea, but it needs to be its own proposal so we can propose variants and sort out the quirks.
  • I like the changes to 5 and 14.
  • 29 should just be gotten rid of. Players are already rewarded for uncontroversial proposals through Elector votes and money; do we really need to discourage ourselves from doing anything risky on top of that? I also dislike 37, since buying votes is silly.
  • For the sake of readability, you should break up the post more. Use quotes instead of quotation marks, and give each clause its own line.
  • I like that "majority vote" was defined. I briefly confused "majority" with "supermajority," and started typing up a complaint—that would have been embarrassing!
  • I don't care about 23, but I guess it clarifies something.

The problem with proposing a whole bunch of changes in one go is that pretty much everyone is going to disagree with something, and they might disagree with it strongly enough to vote against the whole thing. Earlier, I was concerned about people making two, three, or even four-in-one proposals before I realized that they'd get multiple times the opposition.

On winning: if somebody's about to win, won't everyone else just band together to remove the rule allowing for victory? If we create a victory condition now that nobody will agree with, we'll just have to remove it later.

Proposal 48a - Minor Rule Cleanup: The following list of changes will take place:
  • Alter rule 5 to remove the sentence "If a player does not post in the thread for over a week, they shall be considered to have forfeited the game."
  • Alter the final sentence of rule 14 to the following: "A majority vote on a proposal is defined as more than half the votes cast on that proposal."
  • Alter rule 23 by adding the following sentence: "A clear majority vote means that more than half the Holy Imperial Elector Votes cast must be on a single player."
  • Alter rule 33 to read as follows:
Quote
Any player already opposing three or more proposals—and wishing to oppose another—must compose a poem insulting at least one of the following:
    1. The contents of the proposal
    2. The character of the proposer and/or the proposal's supporters
    3. A poem previously composed by the proposer"



I left out fixes to the rules I don't like, because I'm petty. I also left out the major changes I disagree with. Also, somebody needs to propose a way to easy, near-free way to edit out small flaws, since otherwise people will be disinclined to deal with it and we'll have a billion loopholes.

40 plots of land is $2000. Including the base $500, It would take 40 turns under such conditions to reach that goal. No one has more than half that number of plots yet. Adding in the bank probably won't produce anywhere near that amount for a long time yet. Basically. my alteration changed the definition for when the game ends by adding a goal we probably won't hit for a minimum of 30 turns, a full months of play. In other words, the goal is about 30 turns away, when the previous goal of "after 30 turns" would likely have been met sooner. Someone will change the goal by then. Alterations are always possible of course. I figured there would be a few bits people might find objectionable. By the way, can I vote on variants of my proposals? I do count as the proposer in that case, so I'm inclined to say yes. Still, I'd like everyone's opinion on that.
Going by rules-as-written, yes. Going by rules-in-spirit, I would personally say yes, since it would be weird if you couldn't support, say, a version of your proposal with a loophole/typo removed.
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crazyabe

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #177 on: January 10, 2016, 04:09:49 pm »

I Support Proposal 48a.
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Person

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2016, 04:15:32 pm »

Right then. I like a lot of the arguments you've make. I guess I did go a little overboard with my proposal. I support Proposal 48a. Feels good to be able to say that.
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MonkeyMarkMario

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Re: A Game of Nomic: Turn 9: An uneventful turn
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2016, 04:19:33 pm »

I Support Proposal 48a.
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My Forum game(s):
Hahaha, ya right

Any future games will be simpler in nature, I have a bad habit of biting off more than I can chew. Also hoping for more players in them.

I have Discord for my games now(not necessary to play, tho might be easier to contact me): https://discord.gg/DuaARAZ
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