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[Sensei]

I support 17 and 20, oppose 18 and 19.

Proposal 21: Anyone who votes in opposition to a proposal, must apologize to the proposer. Otherwise, that vote is not counted.

Clarification:  Are you abandoning Proposal 19?

Did you grab the wrong quote? I oppose 19, but I didn't previously support it, so I don't know what you mean by abandoning it.

[Iituem]

I support 17 and 20, oppose 18 and 19.

Proposal 21: Anyone who votes in opposition to a proposal, must apologize to the proposer. Otherwise, that vote is not counted.

Clarification:  Are you abandoning Proposal 19?

Did you grab the wrong quote? I oppose 19, but I didn't previously support it, so I don't know what you mean by abandoning it.

Yep!  I thought you were Person!

[Person]

You know, I'm not sure there's anything preventing there being more than one Holy Emperor. Not 100% sure on that though. That would greatly amuse me if that was the case though.

Anyway, my votes are as follows. I support proposal 20, and oppose proposal 21.

[Person]

Bah, I hate to double post but without edits that's what I'm forced to do.

Ah right, there's also nothing saying when a Holy Emperor is elected. When the vote is over, so to speak. Votes on proposals are counted at the end of the turn, but there's nothing about how Holy Imperial Elector Votes are counted. For now, I'll assume the spirit of the rules makes it happen at the end of the turn, but a clear ruling on it in the future would be nice to have.

[Iituem]

I think it's probably best to go Spirit of the Rules until we can lay down proposals.  It's your prerogative as judge as to how you interpret, though.

[Person]

Proposal 17: At the start of each turn, all players gain 500$ each. Currently, $ may be spent at any time as follows:
500$: Acquire one Holy Imperial Elector Vote.
1000$: You may propose an additional proposal this turn. This supersedes the effect of whatever rule was created/modified by Proposal 15.
5000$: Target a player. Any proposals that player submits this turn cannot be supported by any players other than that player.

Proposer: FallacyofUrist

Supported by: FallacyofUrist, crazyabe, Person, Iituem, Sensei

Opposed by: No one.

Total: Passed 5 to 0.

Wow, that sure went well. Everyone will get their first 500$ at the end of this post.

Proposal 18: crazyabe Will forever on be referred to as "Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth".

Proposer: crazyabe

Supported by: crazyabe, Person, Iituem

Opposed by: FallacyofUrist, Sensei

"Lord Uln 'Proposes Uselessness' the eighteenth" must now be referred to as such.

Total: Passes 3 to 2.

Proposal 19: Amend rule 14 to read as follows. At the end of a turn, the votes on all valid proposals are counted. Any proposals in which the majority of the votes are supporting are passed, and the nomic is changed according to those proposals' instructions. If a proposal does not pass, it has failed. The changes occur at the start of the next turn, before anything else. A majority vote is defined as more than half of the votes cast.

Proposer: Person

Supported by: Person

Opposed by: Sensei, Iituem

Total: Does not pass 1 to 2.

Proposal 20: The Holy Emperor receives a grace additional income of 100$ per player who has not left/been exiled from the Empire, representative of tax and Imperial administration.

Proposer: Iituem

Supported by: Iituem, Person

Opposed by: FallacyofUrist, Sensei

Total: Does not pass 2 to 2.

Proposal 21: Anyone who votes in opposition to a proposal, must apologize to the proposer. Otherwise, that vote is not counted.

Proposer: Sensei

Supported by: Sensei

Opposed by: Person, Fallacyofurist

Total: Does not pass 1 to 2

In addition, Iituem nominated Sensei for Holy Emperor with their single vote. No one objected, so Sensei now hold the title of Holy Emperor. May their reign be a good one. As stated before, everyone now has 500$. Spend it wisely.

[TopHat]

Proposal 22: (spoilered due to length)

Spoiler: Proposal 22 (click to show/hide)

Players may propose Variants of existing Proposals by modifying some parts of said Proposal. If there is any disagreement the Judge is responsible for determining whether a proposed Variant is similar enough to the original Proposal to be classed as such. Variants are to be given a letter after the proposal number in the usual order (Proposal 18a, Proposal 18b, etc)
Where multiple variants of the same Proposal gain sufficient votes to pass only the Variant with the most votes Passes and the others Fail. In the case of a tie the Judge is to determine which passes by means of a coin flip, die roll or other unbiased and random method as they seem fit.
Proposing a Variant of an existing Proposal does not count as making a Proposal; as such the author of the original Proposal - not a specific Variant - counts as the proposer in all respects.

(That ended up longer than expected; hope it remains viable.)

[FallacyofUrist]

I oppose Proposal 22 for unneeded complexity and many potential loopholes.

Proposal 23: Whenever a proposal is passed, the player that proposed that proposal gains an amount of $ equal to 100(s-o), where s is the number of players who supported that proposal and o is the number of players that opposed that proposal.

[FallacyofUrist]

I would edit my earlier post to avoid double posting, but I think there's a rule that makes that a bad idea. In any case...
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE, SENSEI!

23: Electors may vote in a new Holy Emperor with a clear majority vote, and may oust an Emperor with another clear majority vote.  Only Elector Votes count.

Note the "clear majority vote"! Just because nobody objected does not mean that a majority of the Elector votes are being used to raise Sensei to emperor!

[Iituem]

I support Proposal 23.

Proposal 24: Players may choose to align themselves with the Ogre Pope, converting any current and future Elector Votes to Ogre Cardinals.  All Cardinal players win if the Ogre Pope wins an Ogre Papacy victory (at this point undefined).

A majority of the votes that were actually pledged made his Imperial Divinity thee Holy Emperor.  We could clarify this with a new proposal.

[Person]

I would edit my earlier post to avoid double posting, but I think there's a rule that makes that a bad idea. In any case...
HOLD IT RIGHT THERE, SENSEI!

23: Electors may vote in a new Holy Emperor with a clear majority vote, and may oust an Emperor with another clear majority vote.  Only Elector Votes count.

Note the "clear majority vote"! Just because nobody objected does not mean that a majority of the Elector votes are being used to raise Sensei to emperor!

I suppose that's debatable. 1 to 0 is a clear majority in a certain sense. It is even technically unanimous. Unlike with proposals, there's no need for at least 2 people to support the vote and such. None of the voting rules that apply to proposals apply to that rule. Still, you have a point, but I'm not sure how to deal with this.

Suppose a scenario existed where only one player had a single Holy Imperial Elector Vote. It would then almost certainly be a majority vote. However, that somewhat implies that unless all the votes in the game are spent, there cannot be a majority. Just as a side note, I'm uncertain that there is a way to directly oppose the election of a Holy Emperor. Doing so might require simply electing a different candidate.

Still, the matter bears discussion. As the title of Holy Emperor doesn't do anything yet, now would be the time to resolve this potential problem.

Anyway, on to my votes. I support proposal 22. I appreciate the possibility to modify a proposal into something more suitable. In addition, this makes it possible to amend one's own proposal after a discussion into its merits. With the proposal limit currently being 1, this could be a great help. That's not to say I don't have any issues with proposal 22, but I'm not really sure what they are. I support proposal 23. Having consequences for a failed proposal is nice. I oppose proposal 24 though.

[FallacyofUrist]

... would not a majority vote mean that the majority of the votes are being used on that option?
And 1 Imperial vote thingy is definitely not a majority.
...
~~~
I also oppose Proposal 24.
Also, it's worth noting that Proposal 23 isn't so much about consequences for failing, but really, a reward for succeeding.

[GameBoyBlue]

Proposal 25:
All players have a sash tied to their arm. The sash can be pulled off by another player if the puller is willing to forfeit receiving money for the turn. A new sash can be purchased for a cost equal to twice the amount players accrue money, if this varies then the cost is $1000.

[FallacyofUrist]

I oppose Proposal 25 for uselessness and misspelling.

[FallacyofUrist]

Also, someone needs to deal with rule 20- there are getting to be several new players joining and it's going to be hard to get anything passed.