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[Sheb]

Which is why you should get serious about seizing some land on the mainland now when your early advantage of secure rear isn't countered by our longer-term advantage of more ressources.

[Taricus]

Well, after a bit of thinking it seems to me that the espionage system could use a little tweaking, given that tech theft is so powerful.

Hence, I propose that if something that was originally complex, it only grants it's requisite tech(s) at complex. That way it still requires some effort to put an acquired design into action instead of just swiping a finished design and geting those techs all for free.

[Sheb]

Someone got a cheap rifle. :p

Well, wasn't sure what to advocate stealing, but now its clear what we should target. Thanks for telling us Taricus. 

[Graknorke]

Well, after a bit of thinking it seems to me that the espionage system could use a little tweaking, given that tech theft is so powerful.

Hence, I propose that if something that was originally complex, it only grants it's requisite tech(s) at complex. That way it still requires some effort to put an acquired design into action instead of just swiping a finished design and geting those techs all for free.

I think a better way to do it would be that stealing a design doesn't get you the prerequisite techs, and instead there's a penalty for having a design without the techs to make it. So yes your workmen could follow the blueprints exactly and make the thing, but without understanding exactly how what they're doing works they're going to be a bit poor at it.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Hence, I propose that if something that was originally complex, it only grants it's requisite tech(s) at complex. That way it still requires some effort to put an acquired design into action instead of just swiping a finished design and geting those techs all for free.

Mainly what the complexity mechanic was for, but I found that needed a bit of work.  Would it be a good idea to make a thread for a standard rulebook?  It probably wouldn't get to the same size as Fire Emblem on the Forums, but it might be useful to make one.

[Taricus]

Well, after a bit of thinking it seems to me that the espionage system could use a little tweaking, given that tech theft is so powerful.

Hence, I propose that if something that was originally complex, it only grants it's requisite tech(s) at complex. That way it still requires some effort to put an acquired design into action instead of just swiping a finished design and geting those techs all for free.

I think a better way to do it would be that stealing a design doesn't get you the prerequisite techs, and instead there's a penalty for having a design without the techs to make it. So yes your workmen could follow the blueprints exactly and make the thing, but without understanding exactly how what they're doing works they're going to be a bit poor at it.

Or this could work too. If anything it seems like the better alternative.

@Sheb: What cheap rifle?

[10ebbor10]

Which is why you should get serious about seizing some land on the mainland now when your early advantage of secure rear isn't countered by our longer-term advantage of more ressources.

We didn't get a secure rear. We had to establish that security ourselves by investing in naval forces. There was nothing stopping you from pursueing naval forces early and attempting to invade us.

The problem is, that as it's set up, we need to use trade or piracy to make up for our resource inadequacy. That means we can't allow you any control of the Sea. That means we won't get enough military power to capture pieces of land, while you shouldn't get any power to contest the Sea. In a way, it excludes you from trade, while it excludes us from doing anything but a series of failed invasions.

Well, after a bit of thinking it seems to me that the espionage system could use a little tweaking, given that tech theft is so powerful.

Hence, I propose that if something that was originally complex, it only grants it's requisite tech(s) at complex. That way it still requires some effort to put an acquired design into action instead of just swiping a finished design and geting those techs all for free.

I think a better way to do it would be that stealing a design doesn't get you the prerequisite techs, and instead there's a penalty for having a design without the techs to make it. So yes your workmen could follow the blueprints exactly and make the thing, but without understanding exactly how what they're doing works they're going to be a bit poor at it.

Or this could work too. If anything it seems like the better alternative.

@Sheb: What cheap rifle?

That seems like the same thing both times worded differently.

[Sheb]

Did you brits decide to spent a focus action on "whine to get bonuses from the GM"? :p

[Taricus]

Nah. To be honest this isn't about anything that's been developed this turn, so much as it is me being sick of how OP espionage was in regards to tech stealing (Including in Sensei's game) and finally figuring out an actual workable solution to that problem.

Should help people be more creative with the wunderwaffen since they'd be more willing to crate them since there's no fear of them being completely replicated the moment it enters the game after a design phase.

[Sheb]

Well, allow my to be suspicious of the guy that wants to nerf stealing Wunderwaffen right after his side design one. 

However, it should be noted that espionage is even more powerful in this game than in Sensei's, since we don't have the imperial/metric thing.

[Taricus]

Only marginally, since there were more than a few things where that simply didn't apply.

As for the wunderwaffen, we don't have any at this time. And if we did, it'd be something much more vital to us than an infantry weapon.

[RAM]

People need to put actual effort into invading the loyalists. the loyalists also need to put effort into invading anyone else, but they have the freedom to make that effort. If the mainland forces don't counter each other than someone that will pretty much always result in pain where the loyalists are free to invest in theoretical technologies and such and if they get a bad roll on one turn it really doesn't affect the next...

[Taricus]

It's not like they haven't tried. They just tend to fail spectacularly at it. Not to mention the fact they have a land war to worry about at the same time.

[Kot]

We technically got something (as in, something we can actually field) better than our revisions of this round, but I guess it was pretty obvious where we would go anyway so if you're going to steal it you're going to steal it anyway.

[Graknorke]

Hey I'm not with the Loyalists, I'm just looking to the future where our steam-mecha advantage would last all of one year before everyone stole the design.