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[Romeofalling]

Trying out an idea and thought I'd kick it around with you guys to see if there are better approaches or unforeseen problems with it.

When I started my fort, I decided to set up a "Distrustful" uniform, assigned a squad to that uniform, and put my starting 7 to it. It just told everybody to carry around a weapon.

As my fortress grew, I added anyone with valuable skills to that squad, while also creating a military. This later made it really easy to use the Squad menu in Therapist to sort my useful dwarves from my haulers and immigrants.

At some point, I pulled my miners out and put them in their own squad, giving them a new uniform that includes complete leather armor and picks, and then did the same for my wood cutters and their axes. Again, this is distinct from my actual military, so I've been thinking of these groups as "militia" or "reservists," and it's just meant to make sure they're all always carrying a weapon with them and are lightly armored.

At this point, I'm looking at the Distrustful uniform and wondering if it's still all that useful. There are other methods of sorting in Therapist (I used to give nicknames to any non-haulers, for example), and thinking about trying some advanced settings for the military screen. For example, telling one dwarf per reservist to train at a time. However, when I try this, the entire squad seems to train. Should I just station one-per-squad in the Danger Room? Are there other problems I haven't thought about?

If I had at least two dwarves per job, I'd consider making A-squads and B-squads, and then putting them on an alternating training regiment, just because I like the notion of a militant dwarven society. But I'm nowhere near there yet.

[vjmdhzgr]

I'm pretty sure putting miners and woodcuts into uniforms is completely broken, and they're either not wearing theirbuniforms at all,or not doing any mining and woodworking.

[Sheb]

I normally have a custom hauler profession. However, in my current fort, I have tons of copper and little else. I was thinking of giving all my dwarves a weapon and some copper armour. Is there a downside to this?

[martinuzz]

I'm pretty sure putting miners and woodcuts into uniforms is completely broken, and they're either not wearing theirbuniforms at all,or not doing any mining and woodworking.

Yeah that's still broken. They will properly dress up into what you tell them to though.

It's a conflict between
a) a pick that is assigned via the military equipment screen will never be used for mining, since the game only considers it as a weapon and not a tool
b) a miner dropping his pick when you draft him into the military, because his uniform will tell him to, unless you assign a pick, which brings you back to a)

Very longstanding bug. Think it dates back to the 2d (no z-levels) version.
I see two possible solutions:
1) change the code of the military weapon assignment to allow the game to recognize assigned military picks as digging tools
2) adding a whole new inventory slot type, "tools", where a dwarf will wear pickaxes and battle axes assigned via the labour list. This would prevent dropping the pick when militarized. A dwarf could then just have 2 picks. One for digging, worn on the tool slot, and one strapped to the body the way weapons are.

I think 2) would probably be easier (require less ripping open of code)


that being said, legendary miners make excellent pick-fighters. Just assign new dwarves to the mining job.

[PatrikLundell]

The downside of copper armor is weight. Untrained dorfs move slowly in heavy armor.

[Sheb]

But a chainmail should be fine? I was more thinking in terms of "can my dorfs still haul crap with a mace and a shield".

[PatrikLundell]

Weight is weight, so it's a matter of degrees. It also depends on the dorf's stats. A shield (in particular a feather-wood one) and a weapon is fine. I believe a good helmet is the recommended armor piece if you're only going to use one.

[Insert_Gnome_Here]

Xbows are a good choice. Their range makes armour less necessary. Wooden shields also be quite lightweight and easy to produce. While not as good as a proper military, large numbers of armed dwarves excel at self defense, such as taking out thieves and bezerk dwarves. They are also a good way to quickly mobilise large amounts of dakka on the scene.

[Romeofalling]

I'm pretty sure putting miners and woodcuts into uniforms is completely broken, and they're either not wearing theirbuniforms at all,or not doing any mining and woodworking.

Yeah that's still broken. They will properly dress up into what you tell them to though.

THIS is exactly the information I was looking for. But I can't I get around this by making the Miners and TreeKiller uniforms lack a weapon specification? The dwarf will have the relevant Job selected, so they'll still be carrying the weapons. They'll train as wrestlers.

Also, still looking for comments on the scheduling aspect of things.

[greycat]

But I can't I get around this by making the Miners and TreeKiller uniforms lack a weapon specification?

No, you can't.

[Romeofalling]

Rephrase: If I give them a uniform that doesn't include a weapon, will they at least wear the leather armor I specify while going about their duties, and possibly even train up Wrestling?

[greycat]

Rephrase: If I give them a uniform that doesn't include a weapon, will they at least wear the leather armor I specify while going about their duties, and possibly even train up Wrestling?

You cannot put any kind of military armor (helm, leather armor, leggings, boots) on a civilian miner, woodcutter or hunter.  That's the bug.  That's why this bug is so devastating.

[martinuzz]

Rephrase: If I give them a uniform that doesn't include a weapon, will they at least wear the leather armor I specify while going about their duties, and possibly even train up Wrestling?

They will wear the armor just fine. BUT THEY WILL DROP THEIR PICK / AXE

[Skullsploder]

With plenty of copper on embark you want to give everyone copper crossbows and import cassiterite and tin on superhigh priority for bronze for helms.

I always have my entire fort drafted, except for miners and woodcutters.

My typical uniform for civilians is

Metal helm
Mail shirt
Leather armour
Leather high boots
Bone or metal gauntlets
Leather leggings or bone greaves
Robe
Hood
Mittens
Trousers
Copper crossbow
Wooden shield
Copper or silver or, very rarely, bronze bolts.

I find that this enables a mob of civilians to effectively disable a significant threat before the military shows up.

60 militia marksdwarves with minimal training supporting 15 "competent" melee fighters managed to defeat a 60+ undead siege on open ground with only 4 total deaths in 40.24. Crossbow mobs are still very effective and definitely worth it. Also most of the metal gear the civilians wear tends to be military surplus rather than purpose made for civilian use.

[Tryble]

60 militia marksdwarves with minimal training supporting 15 "competent" melee fighters managed to defeat a 60+ undead siege on open ground with only 4 total deaths in 40.24. Crossbow mobs are still very effective and definitely worth it.

While I'm a huge supporter of mass Xbow support, against undead they're not much use.  Barring extremely precise headshots, they're going to do precious little damage to undead at all.  They certainly are almost never going to hit hands enough to disarm undead, or legs to knock them over.  It's the same situation with speardwarves face; undead feel no pain.

The most valuable asset crossbowdwarves provide is huge pain delivery, which can cause huge numbers of living enemies to collapse on the spot.  Even well trained Xbowdwarves rarely land killing shots, so it's up to the melee to mop up.  Against undead, all you have is those few lucky shots that eliminate them outright. 

If you have plenty of bolts to spare, there's no real reason not to have the archers provide supporting fire (and get valuable combat experience), but victory can be attributed primarily to the melee in those battles.