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Keep the vanilla ones

Use an expanded vocabularly

Start entirely from scratch

Cull the words that don't make sense from vanilla, then add words as we go

Other(post it in the comments)

[Urdothor]

We probably should. Here are the plants with magical properties I've got planned so far. None of it's actually made yet, but I have the ideas in mind.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All potions require a "potion base" to start with, made using charcoal and a bucket of lye. potions are a tool by default, to allow better control over who drinks them, but if you want they can be made into regular drinks. All reactions would take place at a special workshop.
------

Shade Fern: The shade fern produces a tuber in the fall, which can be extracted (possibly requiring more than one?) and refined to produce shadow draught: a potion which makes creatures invisible. When its effects wear off, after about two weeks, the user will suffer headaches and a significant loss of coordination for about a week. Found in forests.

Mistapew berry: Blooms in the summer, and can be extracted and refined to giant's drink, in two potencies. Users of the weak brew become noticeably stronger, but show some aggressive tendencies. Users of the strong brew become much stronger, feel less pain, and get better combat skills for a period of one week, but are ill-tempered, unpredictable, and extremely aggressive. Found in tropical regions.

Kamwat leaves: Can be collected in spring and summer, and brewed into a tea that fills the user with a profound sense of calm. Users are essentially comatose for a short time after using it, and may suffer from some longer term sensory impairment. Found in plains.

How does the tool base potion thing work, exactly? And the invisibility? (I ask because I've not seen it, so it sounds interesting and intriguing)

Ideas I've had:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No specific creature items yet, as that requires knowing the creatures, but I have some effects, if your curious?
I was considering using fumes as a method for bestowing the effect on groups, at a reduced potency, obviously. Your thoughts?
What about permanent potions, with permanent downsides of some form, and they're more expensive?
Perhaps slathering negative potions on arrows?

[chaotic skies]

So...I was tossing around a few ideas, watching anime for inspiration, you know, generally doing stuff. And I had the idea of weapons, that can only be gotten by fighting demons. Maybe they're really powerful, so only like a really lucky fortress can get one, or a powerful adventurer? The reason they're so special is because they're Cursed, so they do more damage to magical enemies. You could have some variety, like bows, swords, daggers, maces, etc. What do you guys think? I'm not sure on this one, but I thought it was interesting

[Urdothor]

And I had the idea of weapons, that can only be gotten by fighting demons.

Demons

Demons

That brings up the question. Are our demons naturally of this plane, forged by the effects of raw magic(magicite) on mortal beings, or are they the massive titans of the extradimensional beings feasting on the core of the plane?

Edit: Also, does contact with a weapon cause syndrome effects? Like actual cursed weapons?

[chaotic skies]

And I had the idea of weapons, that can only be gotten by fighting demons.

Demons

Demons

That brings up the question. Are our demons naturally of this plane, forged by the effects of raw magic(magicite) on mortal beings, or are they the massive titans of the extradimensional beings feasting on the core of the plane?

Edit: Also, does contact with a weapon cause syndrome effects? Like actual cursed weapons?

Not sure about where they come from, but contact with the weapons for too long can lead to horrible things. Like insanity, pain, death, possesion...you get the idea. The only exception is if someone is trained from birth for these weapons, and even then they rarely survive the experience.

[Urdothor]

Not sure about where they come from, but contact with the weapons for too long can lead to horrible things. Like insanity, pain, death, possesion...you get the idea. The only exception is if someone is trained from birth for these weapons, and even then they rarely survive the experience.

That's part of my question. Does contact with weapons cause syndrome effects?

I think I'm gonna put necrosis on iron and test it in the arena.

[Baffler]

We probably should. Here are the plants with magical properties I've got planned so far. None of it's actually made yet, but I have the ideas in mind.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All potions require a "potion base" to start with, made using charcoal and a bucket of lye. potions are a tool by default, to allow better control over who drinks them, but if you want they can be made into regular drinks. All reactions would take place at a special workshop.
------

Shade Fern: The shade fern produces a tuber in the fall, which can be extracted (possibly requiring more than one?) and refined to produce shadow draught: a potion which makes creatures invisible. When its effects wear off, after about two weeks, the user will suffer headaches and a significant loss of coordination for about a week. Found in forests.

Mistapew berry: Blooms in the summer, and can be extracted and refined to giant's drink, in two potencies. Users of the weak brew become noticeably stronger, but show some aggressive tendencies. Users of the strong brew become much stronger, feel less pain, and get better combat skills for a period of one week, but are ill-tempered, unpredictable, and extremely aggressive. Found in tropical regions.

Kamwat leaves: Can be collected in spring and summer, and brewed into a tea that fills the user with a profound sense of calm. Users are essentially comatose for a short time after using it, and may suffer from some longer term sensory impairment. Found in plains.

How does the tool base potion thing work, exactly? And the invisibility? (I ask because I've not seen it, so it sounds interesting and intriguing)

Ideas I've had:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No specific creature items yet, as that requires knowing the creatures, but I have some effects, if your curious?
I was considering using fumes as a method for bestowing the effect on groups, at a reduced potency, obviously. Your thoughts?
What about permanent potions, with permanent downsides of some form, and they're more expensive?
Perhaps slathering negative potions on arrows?

The idea was to make them tools that're just called "x potion" then make a boiling stone reaction that consumes the potion. That way people can drink them even if they aren't thirsty and people don't have to do crazy stuff with burrows to get the right person to drink them, just assign them to that workshop with the manager or disable the alchemy labor for everyone else. The invisibility one would work by giving the creature access to an interaction (using (CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION]) that gives them the hide ability. The usage hint would be blank, which if I remember right makes the creature use it whenever it's available. Just gotta make the cooldown shorter than the duration of the effect and that's that.

A side effect of doing it that way is that people could burrow their entire fort on the workshop tile and give everyone the potion's effect, but given the negative effects of these that probably isn't the smartest plan anyway.

Edit: I really like the permanent potions idea. The fumes are interesting, but could you explain a little more how that would work? And as I recall it takes DFHack to reliably apply coatings to weapons. It's technically possible with some really janky setups, but they're all just as likely to infect the person doing it.

[Urdothor]

The idea was to make them tools that're just called "x potion" then make a boiling stone reaction that consumes the potion. That way people can drink them even if they aren't thirsty and people don't have to do crazy stuff with burrows to get the right person to drink them, just assign them to that workshop with the manager or disable the alchemy labor for everyone else. The invisibility one would work by giving the creature access to an interaction (using (CE_CAN_DO_INTERACTION]) that gives them the hide ability. The usage hint would be blank, which if I remember right makes the creature use it whenever it's available. Just gotta make the cooldown shorter than the duration of the effect and that's that.

A side effect of doing it that way is that people could burrow their entire fort on the workshop tile and give everyone the potion's effect, but given the negative effects of these that probably isn't the smartest plan anyway.

Boiling stones don't actually work all to reliably without DF Hack do to "breathing ticks" (65-75%?) http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154562.msg6659549#msg6659549.

I actually had a possible solution that's posted in that link, but I can repost it if requested.
I think that his numbers are probably a wee bit off given a comment at the bottom about how often the effect works.

As to this, "The usage hint would be blank, which if I remember right makes the creature use it whenever it's available. Just gotta make the cooldown shorter than the duration of the effect and that's that." What I noticed in arena was that it wasn't used on self as often anymore. If I could make a suggestion? Use two, usage hint "greeting" and usage hint "attack_only(or whatever the actual thing is)." That way they'll be forced to use it in the only 2 situations they'll find themselves in.


Edit: My solution to large groups, which I posted in the thread, is theoretical, but might work.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Found this thread while looking into implementing an alchemy/magic system of some kind.

Now, I'm a novice modder at best, so forgive me if I've misunderstood something, or made incorrect assumptions about something, but I think I have an idea that might work. It's only a theory though.

It seems to me, based on reading this, that the issue with applying a syndrome through inhalation is that due to the breathing tick, the target creature can only inhale a small number of times, as the gas fades before they have another chance to breath it in. Even when generating a large number of boiling stones, the gas still fades away in relatively the same amount of time, correct? And IndigoFenix's work around gives multiple chances for the effect to work, but runs multiple reactions.

My theory, I believe, may work relatively well. If you could extend the amount of time there's gas in the air, it would give the creature more chances to breathe it in and be affected. Containers affect the temperature of their contents, raising or lowering them depending on it's own temperature. What if you had the reaction produce a number of stones and place them in a container with a fixed temperature just over their boiling point? Give each stone a different spec_heat value calibrated so that when the gas of one dissipates, another one boils(would require testing to get the time right). Or better yet, have multiple clones that boil simultaneously so theirs a greater chance of the inhalation happening. This way, the air is full of syndrome-gas for a longer amount of time using one reaction, giving a more reliable(not 100%, unless you do it for a very long time, but close) rate of effectiveness.

There's a mod that covers weapons in adventure mode, if I recall.


Double Edit: The mod escapes me! Nooooooooo... Well... I see 2 possible ways to do it then. Weapons made of a material that melts inside the creature. Or.... momentarily give an interaction to the user that can target a material, and tell it to fire the poison at it..
Or give up.

[Baffler]

Ouch, well that's disappointing. And makes me wonder just how much else I know about what's possible and what's not is two or more major releases old, heh. I guess they'll pretty much have to be drinks to get them to work reliably, but it's so inelegant by comparison as far as gameplay is concerned.

The only problem I see with your solution is that the containers won't disappear along with the stones. We might be able to provide an explanation for that mechanically by making the player produce special containers to run the reaction that are, regardless of input material, made of a material with the necessary properties. But even that might fail, since the liquids would need to make it into the right container and as far as I know there's no way to guarantee that that will happen.

Edit: Or we could daisy-chain free automatic reactions that require, then consume, an otherwise useless product of the first (that will rot away if unused to prevent abuse) get more gas flowing. I don't know exactly how many it would take, but it's bound to work eventually, right?

[Urdothor]

Ouch, well that's disappointing. And makes me wonder just how much else I know about what's possible and what's not is two or more major releases old, heh. I guess they'll pretty much have to be drinks to get them to work reliably, but it's so inelegant by comparison as far as gameplay is concerned.

The only problem I see with your solution is that the containers won't disappear along with the stones. We might be able to provide an explanation for that mechanically by making the player produce special containers to run the reaction that are, regardless of input material, made of a material with the necessary properties. But even that might fail, since the liquids would need to make it into the right container and as far as I know there's no way to guarantee that that will happen.

Edit: Or we could daisy-chain free automatic reactions that require, then consume, an otherwise useless product of the first (that will rot away if unused to prevent abuse) get more gas flowing. I don't know exactly how many it would take, but it's bound to work eventually, right?

You can specify reaction classes to allow the reaction to require special containers!

[REACTION_CLASS:X] Reagent material must have the specified reaction class

Edit: So that means that my way can work, if we can get the SPEC_HEAT timing right on the fumes.

Double Edit: Boiling stone reactions Inhalation effects are a lot more consistent out of combat, so that means it should work fairly often.

[Baffler]

Ouch, well that's disappointing. And makes me wonder just how much else I know about what's possible and what's not is two or more major releases old, heh. I guess they'll pretty much have to be drinks to get them to work reliably, but it's so inelegant by comparison as far as gameplay is concerned.

The only problem I see with your solution is that the containers won't disappear along with the stones. We might be able to provide an explanation for that mechanically by making the player produce special containers to run the reaction that are, regardless of input material, made of a material with the necessary properties. But even that might fail, since the liquids would need to make it into the right container and as far as I know there's no way to guarantee that that will happen.

Edit: Or we could daisy-chain free automatic reactions that require, then consume, an otherwise useless product of the first (that will rot away if unused to prevent abuse) get more gas flowing. I don't know exactly how many it would take, but it's bound to work eventually, right?

You can specify reaction classes to allow the reaction to require special containers!

[REACTION_CLASS:X] Reagent material must have the specified reaction class

Edit: So that means that my way can work, if we can get the SPEC_HEAT timing right on the fumes.

It would take a fair bit of tinkering, but if that's the case I don't see why this wouldn't work. Now we just need to ‼science‼ at it a little...

[Urdothor]

It would take a fair bit of tinkering, but if that's the case I don't see why this wouldn't work. Now we just need to ‼science‼ at it a little...

I suppose all we really have to do is find what interval between SPEC_HEAT makes one stone boil as another's smoke dissapates.

Edit: What if we did 1 person potions as a stone that boils on touch, not air contact? So it's a contact syndrome, basically.

[Baffler]

I thought contact syndromes with materials were kinda finicky. Did you ever do that test with nauseating iron?

[Urdothor]

I thought contact syndromes with materials were kinda finicky. Did you ever do that test with nauseating iron?

I believe it's only finicky with weapons? I can give it a quick go.

Did you implement Bearskies reactions with the sand/clay(?) yet, by the way?

[Baffler]

Yeah, I put them in earlier today.

[Urdothor]

Yeah, I put them in earlier today.

Just keeping track is all.

Edit: The player list is slowly gaining character, inspired by Cerapters "Cerapter Cancels Mod Game" suggestion. I vaguely remember having important things to do. Vaguely.