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What should we do for the language_words (We can use custom symbols)?

Keep the vanilla ones
Use an expanded vocabularly
Start entirely from scratch
Cull the words that don't make sense from vanilla, then add words as we go
Other(post it in the comments)

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Author Topic: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession  (Read 67060 times)

Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2015, 12:03:56 am »
I planned on making syndrome grass at some point. It works amazingly well.

Edit: As to the impatient bit. I've been working a lot on creature templates, and ironing out kinks, so we have a strong foundation. It's left the non-creature things a bit sparse. I really do apologise.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 12:07:56 am by Urdothor »
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Bearskie

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2015, 12:20:36 am »
No worries. This project definitely needs a strong foundation. Can I know which templates have you finished so that I don't accidentally do another one?
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Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2015, 12:30:50 am »
Various basic organic tissues, skin, fat, bone, etc. and basic body, and body detail plans relating to them.
Give me a bit and I can post them. My laptop was dead so I'm on my phone.
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Bearskie

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2015, 12:07:33 am »
Alright, I've gotten started on some of the grasses, and I'm really digging the idea of biome-specific terrain. In essence, each biome will have exclusive grass types that define the look of the place - so a mountain won't look like a swamp, and a swamp won't look like a forest. This is as opposed to vanilla where there's 50 different types of grass all blended together, and they're all green.

Here, check them out:

Code: [Select]
[PLANT:PYRELIGHT_BSK]
[NAME:pyrelight]
[NAME_PLURAL:pyrelights]
[ADJ:pyrelight]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:PLANT_MEDIUM_TEMPLATE_BSK]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[GRASS]
[GRASS_TILES:249:250:',':'.']
[ALT_GRASS_TILES:248:248:248:248]
[GRASS_COLORS:3:0:0:6:0:1:6:0:0:0:0:0]
[ALT_PERIOD:9000:200]
[PREFSTRING:glowing nature]
[PREFSTRING:illumination]
[WET]
[DRY]
[BIOME:ANY_WETLAND]

[PLANT:FIELDERKIN_BSK]
[NAME:fielderkin]
[NAME_PLURAL:fielderkins]
[ADJ:fielderkin]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:PLANT_MEDIUM_TEMPLATE_BSK]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[GRASS]
[GRASS_TILES:''':'.':',':'`']
[GRASS_COLORS:7:0:1:7:0:1:7:0:0:0:0:1]
[ALT_GRASS_TILES:'`':',':'.':''']
[ALT_PERIOD:1000:20]
[PREFSTRING:rippling fields]
[PREFSTRING:cool breeze]
[WET]
[DRY]
[BIOME:TUNDRA]
[BIOME:TAIGA]
[BIOME:GLACIER]

[PLANT:FIRETAIL_BSK]
[NAME:firetail]
[NAME_PLURAL:firetails]
[ADJ:firetail]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:PLANT_MEDIUM_TEMPLATE_BSK]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[GRASS]
[GRASS_TILES:'`':'.':',':''']
[GRASS_COLORS:4:0:1:4:0:0:6:0:1:6:0:0]
[PREFSTRING:blazing color]
[PREFSTRING:smoky smell]
[DRY]
[BIOME:ANY_DESERT]

[PLANT:BIOLUMINESCENCE_BSK]
[NAME:bioluminescence]
[NAME_PLURAL:bioluminescence]
[ADJ:bioluminescent]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:PLANT_SOFT_TEMPLATE_BSK]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[GRASS]
[GRASS_TILES:'.':',':'`':''']
[GRASS_COLORS:1:0:0:1:0:1:7:0:0:0:0:0]
[PREFSTRING:light]
[WET]
[DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]
Firetails are red desert-dwelling plants. Bioluminescence is found in the caverns; this time around they're a nice shade of blue. I'm considering different grasses for different cavern levels as well.

The other two are animated grasses. Pyrelights are found in swamps. They're a combination of bright cyan and yellow, and their blinking makes pretty little lightshows. Fielderkins are white plants (couldn't fit in cyan there) that blow in the wind. They are found in cold areas.
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Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2015, 02:04:54 am »
Thank you for your contributions. Everything has been added. My contributions should be complete within a day or so, not counting any unexpected... bugs.

Biome specific terrain sounds really nice. Would be a huge improvement on vanilla.
Question, does animated grass change at the same time? I ask, because that might lead to... interesting... results with pyrelight.
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Bearskie

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2015, 02:48:01 am »
Sadly no. Shame, I was thinking of some cool stuff to do aswell.

Now that you're here, what do you think about this suggestion of Halfling's from the original thread?

Quote from: Halfling on July 23, 2013, 09:28:37 am
Hmm, guys, I just had a new idea that I think is pretty cool, but let me know how you feel. It's a shame I didn't think of this when I started this thread.

Extending the standard DF palette. Okay, you can't really do that, but what you can do is repurpose some of the color IDs entirely. Normally color schemes/mods don't do that, but since we don't have to worry about compatibility with vanilla, we could. Now would be a good time to get it started. Note when reading the following that you CAN use colors independently of brightness values (just type in 8 when you mean 7 and brightness 1).

I'm not a color designer but here's my suggestion.



Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Justification:

What do we look at by far most of the time in the game? What are we most frustrated by that we don't have many colors for when modding? (okay, just speaking for myself. Still) Answer:
1. Stone and metal
2. Vegetation
3. Wood

Keeping that in mind, do we really need two kinds of cyan, two kinds of purple, two kinds of blue and two kinds of red to make up 50% of our color set? IMHO, no. We could use one blue, one red (tinted slightly better for use in blood and meat), one purple and no cyan.

This frees up many colors for use. In the above set we have many more colors I feel are more suitable to making vegetation, stones, wood and metal. Of course this was just a quick mock up without much deep thought.

Your thoughts?
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Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2015, 02:51:50 am »
I like the idea actually. What would we have to do to make the different colors work?

I would like to put forward the idea of more accurate creatures classes beyond the... two?ish used by vanilla to add in syndromes and the like. They attempted this in the first one, and, I'm not to sure about the second one, but people had trouble knowing what classes were created. So maybe, add in a list of more or less standardized classes somewhere for those who wish to use them later?

Edit: Halfling made an edit to his table due to some mostly hardcoded colors used by the game:

Quote from: Halfling on July 23, 2013, 10:58:06 am
Hm, first of all, I would really like to figure out a good color to use for luminescence. That would, I think, merit 1 color of its own. Let me know if you have one, for luminescent things like that moss.

However, there will always be casualties when large changes are made. That's why I said I should have thought of it at the start. Now, I was thinking dark greys would migrate to either slate or a different color, to give more hues to stone. You may be right on the gold. It seemed natural to include it because gold is such a special metal. Dark sea green was intended to be used to give some stone a jade-like color.

Also, turns out you can't change colors completely arbitrarily due to hard-coded materials and things (thanks Japa for pointing it out, I did forget). Here's a rethought version with some hints of what the game may/will/should, depending on whether it's moddable or not, use those for. Here if you want "gray" as in metallic you are supposed to go for gray90, and if you want a dark, calm, stone-like color you should choose a tint (slateg, rosequartz, burlywood).



Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a feeling the idea of making magma on your level orange and water on your level turquoise may cause a lot of controversy, but it's a matter of what you're used to.

Feels a little neutered this way. Well, again, thoughts - just an idea for now.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 02:59:55 am by Urdothor »
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Bearskie

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2015, 08:31:26 am »
Remember that one creature can have multiple classes. Some ideas of classification basis: organicity, magical power, intelligence, etc.

Spent around 15 minutes recreating the color palette, then I saw this.

Quote from: Halfling on July 23, 2013, 01:47:09 pm
Here's the data file to add the colors, and screencaps of all that.
Spoiler: df/data/init/colors.txt (click to show/hide)

Anyway, booted it up and ran some DF. It's not a bad scheme, but two problems stand out for me: SlateGray is personally too white for ice, as seen in these brook and frozen river shots.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Second, the brown is ugly. It doesn't fit into some things like the Stealth Mode LOS and designations, and things that up looking quite faded. I personally prefer the pastel colors to be more striking, and better colors - gray90 is too similar to white, slateG4 is quite similar to Rose Quartz, and I'm not too sure if Wheat is actually necessary.

We're going to need an actual color modder if we're going to do this. It's not going to be worth it if the set comes out looking like dirt.
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Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2015, 09:04:29 am »
I was already aware one creature could have multiple classes. I was suggested a standardized implementation of classes, as well as having more than the default "can it be poisoned" and "is it an edible vermin" that vanilla has. I was thinking of classifying based on mundane/supernatural(or extradimensional), verterbrate/inverterbrate, organic/inorganic, etc. Magical power might be fun since we're doing a magic based theme. Like, a highly magical creature may be exposed to, or immune to, certain diseases.

It looks alright. The brown is a tad off, and the ice, I would agree.
Do you know any colour modders we could ask in regards to this?

While looking for interesting types of play, or tag combinations, I found out a civilization can be a [GRAZER] creature successfully during world-gen, and fortress play. It just requires a vastly different starting game. I may look into it. It's vastly different from vanilla. Done right, it could turn out quite fun.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 09:10:40 am by Urdothor »
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Cerapter

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #69 on: December 30, 2015, 09:17:22 am »
Regarding classifications: let us do that with materials, too. So for example, we'll be able to use hearts or lungs in reactions if we put a reaction class into the heart/lung tissue materials.
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Quote from: Max™ on December 08, 2015, 07:03:00 pm
My anaconda man don't want none unless you got 5,000 cm3 of [SELECT_BP:LOWER_BODY:REAR][SELECT_ADDITIONAL_BP:UPPER_LEGS:REAR] hun.

Civilian squads: a suggestion regarding Dwarf Therapist, maintaining stock levels, independent workshop-usage and the military screen.

Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #70 on: December 30, 2015, 09:29:15 am »
Quote from: Cerapter on December 30, 2015, 09:17:22 am
Regarding classifications: let us do that with materials, too. So for example, we'll be able to use hearts or lungs in reactions if we put a reaction class into the heart/lung tissue materials.

Of course heart/lung reactions would only work after you've butchered them, as is my understanding of the reaction_class token. But, that sounds like it would be a good idea.
Should we make a list of reaction classes then, for those who wish to target things, or include their things, without searching?
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Bearskie

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2015, 12:21:08 pm »
Hey guys. Haven't had the time to test, but give this color set a whirl and tell me what you think. :)

Code: [Select]
[BLACK_R:0]
[BLACK_G:0]
[BLACK_B:0]
[BLUE_R:18] Default+
[BLUE_G:51]
[BLUE_B:175]
[GREEN_R:0]
[GREEN_G:128]
[GREEN_B:0]
[CYAN_R:0]
[CYAN_G:128]
[CYAN_B:128]
[RED_R:200] Less-bright red
[RED_G:0]
[RED_B:0]
[MAGENTA_R:128]
[MAGENTA_G:0]
[MAGENTA_B:128]
[BROWN_R:235] Dusk
[BROWN_G:136]
[BROWN_B:0]
[LGRAY_R:192]
[LGRAY_G:192]
[LGRAY_B:192]
[DGRAY_R:51]185 Dark Sands (Light Gray - Indigo)
[DGRAY_G:69]152
[DGRAY_B:84]115
[LBLUE_R:0] Default+
[LBLUE_G:114]
[LBLUE_B:255]
[LGREEN_R:0]
[LGREEN_G:255]
[LGREEN_B:0]
[LCYAN_R:0]
[LCYAN_G:255]
[LCYAN_B:255]
[LRED_R:164] Fields (Light Magenta - Brown)
[LRED_G:36]
[LRED_B:6]
[LMAGENTA_R:255] Baleur (Light Magenta - Pink)
[LMAGENTA_G:66]
[LMAGENTA_B:130]
[YELLOW_R:255]
[YELLOW_G:255]
[YELLOW_B:0]
[WHITE_R:255]
[WHITE_G:255]
[WHITE_B:255]
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Trainzack

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #72 on: December 30, 2015, 12:28:50 pm »
PTW. Also, I'I'd like a modding turn.
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Urdothor

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2015, 12:57:10 pm »
Quote from: Bearskie on December 30, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
Hey guys. Haven't had the time to test, but give this color set a whirl and tell me what you think. :)

Code: [Select]
[BLACK_R:0]
[BLACK_G:0]
[BLACK_B:0]
[BLUE_R:18] Default+
[BLUE_G:51]
[BLUE_B:175]
[GREEN_R:0]
[GREEN_G:128]
[GREEN_B:0]
[CYAN_R:0]
[CYAN_G:128]
[CYAN_B:128]
[RED_R:200] Less-bright red
[RED_G:0]
[RED_B:0]
[MAGENTA_R:128]
[MAGENTA_G:0]
[MAGENTA_B:128]
[BROWN_R:235] Dusk
[BROWN_G:136]
[BROWN_B:0]
[LGRAY_R:192]
[LGRAY_G:192]
[LGRAY_B:192]
[DGRAY_R:51]185 Dark Sands (Light Gray - Indigo)
[DGRAY_G:69]152
[DGRAY_B:84]115
[LBLUE_R:0] Default+
[LBLUE_G:114]
[LBLUE_B:255]
[LGREEN_R:0]
[LGREEN_G:255]
[LGREEN_B:0]
[LCYAN_R:0]
[LCYAN_G:255]
[LCYAN_B:255]
[LRED_R:164] Fields (Light Magenta - Brown)
[LRED_G:36]
[LRED_B:6]
[LMAGENTA_R:255] Baleur (Light Magenta - Pink)
[LMAGENTA_G:66]
[LMAGENTA_B:130]
[YELLOW_R:255]
[YELLOW_G:255]
[YELLOW_B:0]
[WHITE_R:255]
[WHITE_G:255]
[WHITE_B:255]
Definitely gonna have a go with this.  :)

Also, I have an idea to fix an issue the previous version had doing turns, and without trying github as that apparently had some problems. Once basic templates are done, I'll post all of them and people can put up small additions during other peoples turns, and instead of the modders whose turn it is worrying about catching all the working raws, I'll be overseer of this little fortress and add them in, in-between turns.
Unless someone has a better idea, perhaps?

Edit: Trainzack, you've been added up top.  :D
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Trainzack

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Re: DF from Scratch Redux - An entirely player made universe succession
« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2015, 08:15:13 pm »
Quote from: Bearskie on December 30, 2015, 12:21:08 pm
Hey guys. Haven't had the time to test, but give this color set a whirl and tell me what you think. :)

Code: [Select]
lots of colors

I briefly tried this, and I like how vibrant everything is.
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