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Keep the vanilla ones

Use an expanded vocabularly

Start entirely from scratch

Cull the words that don't make sense from vanilla, then add words as we go

Other(post it in the comments)

[Cerapter]

-snip-

Totally unrelated, but you really like the word "niggling", don'tcha?

EDIT: A bit more related: no wonder bone just destroys everything, if it can not only keep up with DF's bronze, but also makes up large part of the creature's arms, if I'm reading it right. Like, 60% of an arm is just bone, compared to DF's 45%.

I mean, I can't, because the explanation for the arguments used is:

I've used arguments to allow other tissues to be inserted, should anyone wish to do so

...But seriously.
Tell us what those arguments are. I'm guessing they follow the original

• ARG1: SKIN
• ARG2: FAT
• ARG3: MUSCLE
• ARG4: BONE
• ARG5: CARTILAGE

format, but don't forget to comment anyway! It is important that future modders can read your code at a glance.

[Urdothor]

The values are about what they were from the original, edited to fit a 1000 relsize for the torso.
Ignore that sentence. I don't know what I meant when I said that.

 I'm going to drop the amount of bone in everything combat related down to 50%. Should solve part of the problem. Going to leave everything else a bit higher, but going to drop those values as well . And I'll mark my default arguments down in the raws.

Edit: Should I re-release the files after I fix them?

[Urdothor]

Double post, but new topic.

All posted contributions have been added to my files, under appropriately named files. The amount of bone in creatures is being reduced. I'm considering changing the material strengths from Halfling's version to something a bit closer to vanilla, but, the values are all relative in the grand scheme of things right? If everything's x amount stronger than vanilla, then the universe balances out?

Edit:

Spoiler: Tiny bit of Lore to add (click to show/hide)

The young god Urd looked to the other gods for criticism and ideas. The god Bear took the laws laid forth by Urd and built upon them. The other gods put forth their own creations, and Urd laid them among his laws and ideas.

Double Edit: Bone layers for standard creatures at 50% of a creatures body part. ~45% for Birds

[Baffler]

Double post, but new topic.

All posted contributions have been added to my files, under appropriately named files. The amount of bone in creatures is being reduced. I'm considering changing the material strengths from Halfling's version to something a bit closer to vanilla, but, the values are all relative in the grand scheme of things right? If everything's x amount stronger than vanilla, then the universe balances out?

Edit:

Spoiler: Tiny bit of Lore to add (click to show/hide)

The young god Urd looked to the other gods for criticism and ideas. The god Bear took the laws laid forth by Urd and built upon them. The other gods put forth their own creations, and Urd laid them among his laws and ideas.

Double Edit: Bone layers for standard creatures at 50% of a creatures body part. ~45% for Birds

A quick arena test of my own (using vanilla humans with the new body and tissue plans copypasted over the vanilla ones) shows that the balance is still more lethal than vanilla. Unarmed combat is more gorey, with several blows usually being enough to pulp limbs or render them unusable, but at least nobody's head is exploding anymore. Combat with weapons is probably less lethal now, but we've been surprised before.

[Bearskie]

Err... where are the new layers again?

Just to not leave you guys in the lurch, progress report. 2 entities in the works, one megabeast complete, random creatures planned, bunch of weapons made.

[Urdothor]

Err... where are the new layers again?

Just to not leave you guys in the lurch, progress report. 2 entities in the works, one megabeast complete, random creatures planned, bunch of weapons made.

You mean the layers where I just reduced the bone down to a smaller size? Haven't posted them yet. Got really busy after fixing them. Give me 10 minutes and they'll be re-posted.

If you're working on 2 entities, I'll probably scrap what I was working on, as we don't need too many entities, and mine isn't all too far along.

[Cerapter]

If you're working on 2 entities, I'll probably scrap what I was working on, as we don't need too many entities, and mine isn't all too far along.

Can we stop with this thinking already?
We aren't trying to publish an AAA game.
We mainly want to have fun, or at least, that's what I want.

Don't scrap anything. Put them in. Be free, my child!

[Urdothor]

If you're working on 2 entities, I'll probably scrap what I was working on, as we don't need too many entities, and mine isn't all too far along.

Can we stop with this thinking already?
We aren't trying to publish an AAA game.
We mainly want to have fun, or at least, that's what I want.

Don't scrap anything. Put them in. Be free, my child!

I just don't want to flood the world with entities, which is something DFFS tends to do. If we already have entities being made, I can put more effort towards interesting regular creatures.

Edit: This is fun. And I think a larger range of regular creatures over a large range of entities would be more fun.

[Cerapter]

And I think a larger range of regular creatures over a large range of entities would be more fun.

So if I'm getting this right, you want interesting regular creatures first, but then we can increase entities as much as we want to, yeah?

Speaking of entities, can we have all of them tolerate every biome the other entities appear in? By this I mean that I don't want an entity to stay alive forever just because no other entity will ever move to deserts, for example.

[Urdothor]

So if I'm getting this right, you want interesting regular creatures first, but then we can increase entities as much as we want to, yeah?

Speaking of entities, can we have all of them tolerate every biome the other entities appear in? By this I mean that I don't want an entity to stay alive forever just because no other entity will ever move to deserts, for example.

Basically. We can have more entities once we have enough unique regular creatures. I don't want to set a ratio or anything of entities to regular creature, but there should be substantially more regular creatures.

Maybe not every biome, depending on the creature, but most biomes. Like, if you have lizards, which are notoriously cold blooded, I doubt they'd be fond of moving anywhere remotely chilly.

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11668 New version of the body layers, hopefully balanced better, and contributions have been added.

[Cerapter]

Ah, well, yes. I just don't want a scenario where people duke it out in temperate areas because all of them tolerate it but never get anywhere because they all hate eachother's starting biome.

I'll be taking a look at the new layers.

...And boy, I'm going to have to think up some original stuff for my turn. I have no idea what do I even want to see in-game yet, that's why I haven't been contributing substantially.

[Urdothor]

Ah, well, yes. I just don't want a scenario where people duke it out in temperate areas because all of them tolerate it but never get anywhere because they all hate eachother's starting biome.

I'll be taking a look at the new layers.

...And boy, I'm going to have to think up some original stuff for my turn. I have no idea what do I even want to see in-game yet, that's why I haven't been contributing substantially.

Yes, I get what you mean. Hopefully we can prevent that.

Well, not new per say, but fixed hopefully.

Yea, I have a few ideas but I'm waiting to see how they'd interact with Bearskie's creations before I delve too deeply

[Cerapter]

Also, regarding that Modder's Resource and DFSIII Material whatever excel spreadsheets that I somehow managed to miss all this time: which one's are we using? Both?

Also, I don't have Excel because I don't have Windows. I hope when it comes to me modifying it, if I'll ever have to, that I won't fuck it up with LibreOffice.

[Urdothor]

Also, regarding that Modder's Resource and DFSIII Material whatever excel spreadsheets that I somehow managed to miss all this time: which one's are we using? Both?

Also, I don't have Excel because I don't have Windows. I hope when it comes to me modifying it, if I'll ever have to, that I won't fuck it up with LibreOffice.

I think they both apply to different things. And... I forgot to modify them. Drat.

[Bearskie]

Sorry, they're dupes, forgot to delete the older one. :3 Modders Resource is the latest version.

If you're working on 2 entities, I'll probably scrap what I was working on, as we don't need too many entities, and mine isn't all too far along.

Don't scrap anything. Put them in. Be free, my child!

Count me in the 'more entities' camp. Was kinda looking forward to this being like Fortress Defense or summat. Each to their own I suppose. Just don't let my stuff stop you from adding whatever you've planned, because I'd feel kinda terrible if that were the case.