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[alway]

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n
Best twitter account.

[Putnam]

Ok let's see... Han dies a horrible undeserved death (should have went out like a hero not sith kebab)
Ren is an basically Epic Fail Guy trying to be a sith and screwing up.
His only purpose was to wear a helmet and look like Vader.
And it worked if you squint your eyes and go slightly cross eyed... and then he takes off his mask and no ammount of squinting will make you not see an edgy teen with acne at this point.

He died trying to save his son, going out about as much a hero as someone with his lifestyle could.

That's the entire point of Kylo Ren's character. Like, seriously. It's completely missing the point to think otherwise. He's intentionally designed to be a guy trying to be a sith and screwing up. You recognized the point of the character and then assumed it was unintentional? That's uncharitable as hell.

Didnt like it that much. It's not terrible, but not good also.

The things I didint like is the very dumb plot, and its even worse as its reused dumb and lazy plot. Acting/characters are a mixed bag. The good guys are ok, except the eccentric fin that really doesnt act like a military person that was feed by propaganda all this years and tries to much to be comic relief for the movie.

The bigger problem are pretty much all the bad guys. The main bad guy, kylo ren is miscast for the role, and that young general that acts so much stiff also. They both look extremely inappropriate for the role they play.

The whole movie is to fast, with characters bonding with each other also to fast. A fucking hole rebellion is destroyed with that death star 3. So much lazy story telling.

Music is the worst from all star wars trilogies.

Overall it feel like this movie was not needed really. But how it looks they will be milking the shit out of this, as every year now a new star wars movie will be coming out. Its a bland copy of original movie. At least the prequels tried something new, this one plays to much safe

So "it's a bland copy, except for the villains, who are dumb because I expected them to be a bland copy but they aren't", got it.

[TheDarkStar]

So I just watched this.

Good:
The plot was not terrible.
The acting was good and I found the characters generally believable, although that orange alien with the big eyes annoyed me a bit.
No Jar-Jar (and no really annoying characters in general).
Although special effects don't make a movie, I noticed that the special effects were better than the original series - ships that are made mostly of metal breaking apart instead of exploding, etc.
X-wings fighting in the atmosphere instead of space.

Bad:
Large parts of the plot were from the original series. I understand that it was done to reassure people that "no, this will not be like the prequels", but the plot felt like it could have gone a bit further.
I didn't mind the ending that much, but it could have been a bit shorter.


Overall, I liked the movie. I also noticed that it was significantly darker in some places than predecessor movies, especially:
The scene near the beginning when the Stormtroopers execute an entire village
The scene where Han Solo has a serious case of heartburn
The fight between Rey (Rei? Reye? It's probably not spelled Ray) and Ren, especially where Rey almost kills Ren.
Showing a city on a planet just before/just as it explodes.

One thing still bugs me, though - the energy equivalent to the binding energy of a normal planet is given off by stars over a few seconds, not hours. It doesn't bug me as much that everyone can see the exploded planets, though - remember how the red laser things already move significantly faster than light? My interpretation is that they ended up reflected and scattered after exploding the Republic's planets, hence why the only color visible from the exploded planets is the laser's red.

[Putnam]

wait, you're complaining that the weapon was less powerful than it ought to have been?

[Orange Wizard]

It's kinda silly to use physics as an argument in a universe where the laws thereof spend most of their time crying in a corner.

[ChairmanPoo]

Personally i'm annoyed by the polarized nature of the force in the movies and i really wish to see a grey/neutral jedi for once being important.

I don't know anything but another Good jedi vs stupidly evil Sith.

I think Luke was pretty much a grey-neutral jedi... and that's why he was the good one.

During the prequels, and ESPECIALLY during the original trilogy, the original Jedi order is shown to be pretty much as bad as the sith. They are two sides of the same coin, really. I suppose that the rotting oligarchical burocracy the Jedi were supporting *is* marginally better than the chaotical warlordism Palpatine seems to seek as his ultimate political goal, but by how much exactly could likely be contested, considering the Galaxy is already rife with crime, slavery, and injustice during the prequels.

Anyhow...

 
Consider the following:

- The Jedi Council as a whole is a praetorian guard dedicated to maintaining the status quo no matter what.

- Jedis are banned from forming attachments of any sort, because this might make them stray from the cult's goals. Yoda straight out refuses to help Anakin deal with the (eventually self-fulfilling) prophecy about the death of his loved ones because he shouldn't have loved ones in the first place, and instead tells him the force yadda yadda deal with it.

- Mace Windu was happily going to murder an elected head of state and carrying out a coup de'etat because some teen guy that up to that point  HE DID NOT TRUST AT ALL happened to tell him that the man was a member of a rival cult.
- Bonus points because at this point they don't really have any proof or inkling that Palpatine has done anything nefarious -we, the spectators, know that he was orchestrating the whole war, but Mace L Motherfuckin' Windu knows no such thing. He just took at face value a second hand report that the chancellor followed a different cult than his, assembled a death squad, and went to kill him.

- "Only a sith deals in absolutes. I'll fulfill my duty". Let's leave the oxymoron aside for a moment and consider how fast Obi has gone from "BFF you saved my life 5 times" to "I'm going to murderize you".
Except... oh wait. He doesn't even kill him, really. Instead he maims him and leaves him to presumely burn slowly to death at the shore of a lava sea.  Really, all things considered, Vader was pretty collected while confronting Obi Wan during episode 4, when one takes into account how their last meeting went.

In the OT: Both Yoda and specially Obi Wan keep manipulating Luke into patricide. No word on whether they expected Luke to survive such a deed. It's not like they don't have a contingency plan in the hat, just in case.

Even after the "certain point of view" (that's Jedese for "pure utter bullshit") comes to light, both Yoda and Obi Wan keep trying to guilt-trip him into doing it anyway.

BEN
To be a Jedi, Luke, you must (...) face Darth Vader again!

LUKE
I can't kill my own father.

BEN
Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

And you know what's the funniest thing about this exchange? THAT THE EMPEROR WANTS HIM TO DO EXACTLY THAT SAME THING!

EMPEROR
Good! Your hate has made you powerful. Now, fulfill your destiny and  take your father's place at my side!

 Except Luke realizes that the solution lies precisely in following his own moral compass, instead of the decrees of cult leaders acting on the whims of unfathomable opposite-but-equal cosmic forces. He just wont kill his own father because in his book it's plain wrong.
And it works.

[mainiac]

- Mace Windu was happily going to murder an elected head of state and carrying out a coup de'etat because some teen guy that up to that point  HE DID NOT TRUST AT ALL happened to tell him that the man was a member of a rival cult.

Sure and we killed Osama Bin Laden because he was "member of a rival political movement".

In the OT: Both Yoda and specially Obi Wan keep manipulating Luke into patricide.

Because they know that he will succeed and anyone else will fail.

It's amazing how if you act like the clearly established and easy to understand reasons people do things dont exist, their actions look a lot less intelligent.  Oh wait, not amazing.  That other thing.

[FallacyofUrist]

It's kinda silly to use physics as an argument in a universe where the laws thereof spend most of their time crying in a corner.

That's a reference to Deathgate. I'm sure of it.

[TheDarkStar]

wait, you're complaining that the weapon was less powerful than it ought to have been?

Yes.

[ChairmanPoo]

- Mace Windu was happily going to murder an elected head of state and carrying out a coup de'etat because some teen guy that up to that point  HE DID NOT TRUST AT ALL happened to tell him that the man was a member of a rival cult.

Sure and we killed Osama Bin Laden because he was "member of a rival political movement".

You selectively quote posts. I answered this just under the bit you quoted

- Bonus points because at this point they don't really have any proof or inkling that Palpatine has done anything nefarious -we, the spectators, know that he was orchestrating the whole war, but Mace L Motherfuckin' Windu knows no such thing. He just took at face value a second hand report that the chancellor followed a different cult than his, assembled a death squad, and went to kill him.

But I'll be even plainer: As far as Mace Windu and the data he has on hand are concerned (aka: Some guy told me the Chancellor follows a rival religion), it's as if an US general walked into the Oval Office and murdered the US President on the grounds that he read on a fringe website that he was really a kenyan muslim

[mainiac]

Mace Windu had known for ten years at this point that there was a Sith Lord out there.  He was familiar with their MO, that being the point of the Jedi.  Then a source extremely close to the chancellor tells him the chancellor has been hiding extremely strong force powers.  Not arresting the chancellor would be beyond stupid.  It only escalated to lethal force when the chancellor murders three dudes right in front of him.

[Xantalos]

I'm feeling more coherent now and am back to gripe more exposit on my earlier shouting.

I had no clue what the state of the galaxy was in the movie. The opening crawl said that the First Order 'rose from the ashes of the empire'. Does that mean they're a big threat that controls a lot of territory? That would make sense, they act with impunity in the movie with no opposition from the Republic and make a planet into a solar-system buster. But if they are, why isn't the republic going to war against them instead of sponsoring the Resistance, which apparently has only a dozen or so X-wings for its entire fleet (Po guy says 'that's half our fleet down' after a bunch of ships die and there's ~6 x-wings left)? Are they a big threat or space North Korea? Should I be afraid for the fate of the galaxy? I dunno.

I know it was probably said somewhere that the planets blown up by the ... what the fuck ever they called the superweapon were the capital of the Republic, but if so it was very easily missed. I missed it entirely, and the only line I can remember that could be the reference to it is 'THIS WILL BE THE FALL OF THE REPUBLIC' spoken while Space Hitler Guy is Space Hitlering right into the camera - I took this as a statement to the effect of 'with this superweapon the Republic will be defenceless against us', not that they've literally blown up the capital. I'd never seen that planet before, didn't even learn its name until I looked it up after the movie.

And also the movie's plot was basically a reskin of A New Hope. That's not necessarily a bad thing since they did it well, just a thing to note. Like I knew Han was going to die as soon as he appeared on screen because he was in the Old Mentor role that Obi-Wan had in ANH, and Kylo Ren was the Darth Vader. Easy to see coming. It also made the First Order out to be incompetent fuckwits that their superweapon that was many times the size of either Death Star could easily be blown up by some X-Wings WHEN THEY HAD EVIDENCE OF HOW THE PREVIOUS DEATH STARS WERE DESTROYED.

Also, another misleading thing, at least for me - during the Resistance strategy meeting where they're planning on how to blow the Sun Shooty Planet up, Finn bullshits something about the spot they end up shooting to blow it up, saying that that's it's weak spot. But 5 minutes later when they actually get there he goes 'yeah I don't know shit, I'm just here to rescue Rei'. I (and by extension probably other people' took from that statement that the 'weak spot' WOULDN'T blow up the Al Gore Planet when shot up, reinforced by Han grabbing him and going 'you fucktard you've just doomed the Resistance for some space poon'. Of course, it did end up exploding in the end, which was alright and all since that's how ANH ended and I caught onto the plot line as it proceeded, but there were a lot of moments like that where inserting one more line of clarifying dialogue ('so you don't know how to destroy the Sol Invictus?') would have made things a lot less confusing.

Obviously I had a lot of other questions, like who the fuck is Snoke and how'd he get close enough to Ben 'School Shooter' Solo to turn him into Kylo Ren, but those are obviously questions that will be answered in the next movie, and are character-based. I can handle those since they actually make me curious about the next instalment, as opposed to wondering whether the Republic is actually a thing or not, which just makes me frustrated.

I'm sure I've forgotten something, I'll probably edit it in later.

[Putnam]

The New Republic was a thing, Mon Mothma insisted on some "WE ARE NOT THE EMPIRE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE SUCH A LARGE FLEET" kind of thing, so they have a fleet basically just large enough to protect the capital and expect more local governments to handle their own military.

The Resistance was founded in order to combat the First Order, one of the splinters of the Empire (and the most successful, likely because it has Snoke at the helm). The New Republic funded it in a proxy war sort of situation, and you saw all of the Resistance in The Force Awakens. They're quite small.

The First Order is a fanatical group based upon the Empire. Snoke's motives are mysterious, but I would guess that he based his First Order on the Empire specifically for the familiarity. Dude is very old, he could have based it on anything. The members of the First Order are noticeably younger and more impetuous than the Empire; I'm entirely sure this is intentional.

I wasn't sure after the fact if Finn was actually bullshitting? He was certainly bullshitting in the sense that he didn't have a plan to blow up the thing, but he seemed to know that the thing being blown up would do something, even if sanitation.



There were a couple deleted scenes that went way further into your complaints. To be exact, one that had Leia sending off an emissary to Hosnian Prime to request more help (she's the black woman at the forefront of the balcony in the big explosion scene), which AFAIK would've well established the Resistance's relation with the Republic and their size compared to the First Order. I think the novelization has all that intact.

[Orange Wizard]

And also the movie's plot was basically a reskin of A New Hope. That's not necessarily a bad thing since they did it well, just a thing to note. Like I knew Han was going to die as soon as he appeared on screen because he was in the Old Mentor role that Obi-Wan had in ANH, and Kylo Ren was the Darth Vader. Easy to see coming. It also made the First Order out to be incompetent fuckwits that their superweapon that was many times the size of either Death Star could easily be blown up by some X-Wings WHEN THEY HAD EVIDENCE OF HOW THE PREVIOUS DEATH STARS WERE DESTROYED.

Death Star 2.0 was pretty well defended. It was destroyed because the rebellion guys had an inside man, and a pilot bonkers enough to enter the atmosphere at light speed to avoid the shields.
The First Order was not expecting a Stormtrooper to rebel, what with all the propaganda/mindfuckery they do. And the latter is also something you wouldn't expect, seeing as it's nigh-on suicidal, and Solo-sama only pulled it off because plot he's Han Solo.

[Putnam]

And also the movie's plot was basically a reskin of A New Hope. That's not necessarily a bad thing since they did it well, just a thing to note. Like I knew Han was going to die as soon as he appeared on screen because he was in the Old Mentor role that Obi-Wan had in ANH, and Kylo Ren was the Darth Vader. Easy to see coming. It also made the First Order out to be incompetent fuckwits that their superweapon that was many times the size of either Death Star could easily be blown up by some X-Wings WHEN THEY HAD EVIDENCE OF HOW THE PREVIOUS DEATH STARS WERE DESTROYED.

Death Star 2.0

Hey, I take offense at that.

It's the Death Star 3.0.