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[PatrikLundell]

Given that most migrants arrive after both the library and the tavern has been set up the orders matters little in practice. However, Halnoth's comment about skill influence sounds reasonable (and I have yet to see anyone dance).
Also, if a dorf is reading in the library the "get food to table" logic might possibly select the table closest to the location of the dorfs at time of peckishness, rather than the table closest to the food.

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

What does it mean, when I get the announcement, that one of my scholars became a sage? I checked the profile of the dwarf, but can't see anything specific.

[Bouchart]

Did he become legendary in some skill?

[therahedwig]

I've noticed scrolls are bugged: In my fort where rollers had to be made from conglomerate, I somehow had scrolls that were made of native aluminium and alunite, and I hadn't done any trading. Furthermore, it seems paper quality isn't added to quires and scrolls(which is weird considering paper has a quality), so in general I am assuming books' components are just bugged in general... There's at the least a bug reported where binding books messes with the value: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9409

Also, I just realised the thread title probably needs to say Scrolls vs Codices...

[Niddhoger]

I've noticed scrolls are bugged: In my fort where rollers had to be made from conglomerate, I somehow had scrolls that were made of native aluminium and alunite, and I hadn't done any trading.

Check what your visitors are holding.  They often bring books with them.  I noticed a book titled something like "what it means to be an elf," and was about to go dump whatever dwarf wrote THAT piece of hippie garbage with it in some magma when I realized it was in the hands of an elf poet.  Performing troupes and traveling scholars tend to have at least one in their hands when they visit.  I think that elf above had one in each.

[therahedwig]

I've noticed scrolls are bugged: In my fort where rollers had to be made from conglomerate, I somehow had scrolls that were made of native aluminium and alunite, and I hadn't done any trading.

Check what your visitors are holding.  They often bring books with them.  I noticed a book titled something like "what it means to be an elf," and was about to go dump whatever dwarf wrote THAT piece of hippie garbage with it in some magma when I realized it was in the hands of an elf poet.  Performing troupes and traveling scholars tend to have at least one in their hands when they visit.  I think that elf above had one in each.

Well, that's the funny thing, this fort had no visitors either.

[Niddhoger]

I've noticed scrolls are bugged: In my fort where rollers had to be made from conglomerate, I somehow had scrolls that were made of native aluminium and alunite, and I hadn't done any trading.

Check what your visitors are holding.  They often bring books with them.  I noticed a book titled something like "what it means to be an elf," and was about to go dump whatever dwarf wrote THAT piece of hippie garbage with it in some magma when I realized it was in the hands of an elf poet.  Performing troupes and traveling scholars tend to have at least one in their hands when they visit.  I think that elf above had one in each.

Well, that's the funny thing, this fort had no visitors either.

I believe visitors can leave behind books and said books can be reclaimed from their owners turning down the wrong alley at night and meeting a megabeast/nightcreature. 

Now, if you have -never- had a visitor, then I dunno >.>

[Halnoth]

I've noticed scrolls are bugged: In my fort where rollers had to be made from conglomerate, I somehow had scrolls that were made of native aluminium and alunite, and I hadn't done any trading. Furthermore, it seems paper quality isn't added to quires and scrolls(which is weird considering paper has a quality), so in general I am assuming books' components are just bugged in general... There's at the least a bug reported where binding books messes with the value: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9409

Also, I just realised the thread title probably needs to say Scrolls vs Codices...

I noticed this as well. My scroll rollers are usually made from green glass. The item description will have two roller materials. The actual green glass and seemingly a random stone type. I am not sure what causes this.

As to what makes a scholar a sage; (the following is based off observations of visiting scholars and my own scholars)

1. Noob scholars are just called scholar.
2. Scholars who have a high skill in any 1 category of academic skills are called that thing. For instance Astronomer.
3. Dwarves that are called Sage appear to have a high teacher, critical thinking stat, and some other academic skill. Both dwarves that are called sage in my current fort have 11 in teacher, crit think, and logician. I am not sure if it is that specific combo or if the 3rd skill can be anything instead of logician.

Edit: I dug out a 42.02 fort because I knew I had a naturalist there. So these are my findings with all available data (15 forts total across 42.02-.04.

SAGE - High Levels of Critical Thinking + Logician or a Medical Skill (so far these skills are the only ones I have seen on a unit with the Sage title, however I suspect that any 2nd skill combined with critical thinking will give you a sage)
SCHOLAR - Low level academic skills
PHILOSOPHER - High Levels of Logician (can be paired with anything else except Critical Thinking since that will produce a Sage or Mathematics since that will produce a Mathematician)
MATHEMATICIAN - High Levels of Mathematics (can be paired with Logician)
HISTORIAN - High Levels of Critical Thinking
ASTRONOMER - High Levels of Astronomy
NATURALIST - High Levels of Tracker
CHEMIST - High Levels of Chemistry
GEOGRAPHER - High Levels of Geography
ENGINEER - High Levels of Optics or Fluid Engineering, can be coupled with Mechanic or Pump Operator.

Medical professions work as always except when coupled with critical thinking since that will produce a sage.

[Halnoth]

I believe that this naming structure provides us at least some insight into how the fields are related.

Since critical thinking produces a historian and a combination of critical thinking with medical skills or logician produces a sage (I have no proof of the other skills causing the sage status), then we can conclude that critical thinking or put another way the ability to put something into historical context is the branching point for a tech tree. When dwarves migrate with skills Math is paired with Logician. Critical thinking is often paired with Medical Skills or Logician. However, Chemistry, Geography, Astronomy, and Tracker are always separate. Engineering skills are often paired. Obviously more research must be done to see if there are more connections. I listed books that I could link to a dwarf who had both.

The Tech Forest:
                                   
                                          Medical Science
History (Critical thinking)   <                l------ Books: Medical Ethics
                                          Philosophy (Logician)
                                                         l------ Books: Economic Policy & Deductive Reasoning
                                                     Math

Natural Science (Tracker)

Chemistry

Geography

Astronomy

                Fluid Engineer - Pump Operator
Engineer <
       l         Optics Engineer
Mechanics

Edit: I'm going to test this by doing an embark with dfhack and use start dwarf to embark with a few different combos. Too bad you can't embark with tracker.

Edit2: Apparently startdwarf is broken so ill just have to embark a bunch of times.

Edit3: Scratch that, I'll just have to continue gathering observation data from forts. There is not an easy way to embark with dwarves who only have lvl 10 in the skills I need. Made me wish Runesmith worked, man I miss that program.

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

The stats of the sage are following:

Critical Thinker: Level 12
Logician: Level 8
Writer: Level 7
Student: Level 11
Speaker and Teacher: Level 3
Wordsmith: Level 1

That seems to fit to your observations. Not related to the Library Skills, but maybe noteworthy. He is a Legendary Plant Gatherer L20, but already since a while as he is full-time studying since about a year or so.

Where can I see the title of this dwarf and if other dwarves have titles as well? Just noticed it via the announcement screen. I have got other scholars as well with levels 10 to 12 in some library skills, one of them even level 16.

[Halnoth]

The stats of the sage are following:

Critical Thinker: Level 12
Logician: Level 8
Writer: Level 7
Student: Level 11
Speaker and Teacher: Level 3
Wordsmith: Level 1

That seems to fit to your observations. Not related to the Library Skills, but maybe noteworthy. He is a Legendary Plant Gatherer L20, but already since a while as he is full-time studying since about a year or so.

Where can I see the title of this dwarf and if other dwarves have titles as well? Just noticed it via the announcement screen. I have got other scholars as well with levels 10 to 12 in some library skills, one of them even level 16.

In game if the dwarf is assigned to the library his scholarly title should be displayed as the dwarfs profession. A dwarf can also have the profession if they immigrated with it, which means they gained the title at another site. I am not sure what the trigger is for a dwarf to gain a new scholar profession/title at your fort but I would think it would be when the dwarf gains a certain amount of experience.

In dwarf therapist you can just sort by profession (assuming you didn't assign the dwarf a custom profession).

Note that the only title worthy skills are topic skills. These are Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Fluid & Optics Engineer, Tracker, Critical Thinking, Math, & Logic. Of course medical skills and mechanic as well. The other scholarly skills don't pertain to topics but help with actions like discussing or writing.

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

Ah thx. That was it. I assigned the custom profession Scholar to all my Scholars to easier find them.

I have got the a.m. sage and 2 Engineers. The Engineers have following stats, just in case you are interested:

First:

Fluid Engineer - 11
Mechanic - 12
Optics Engineer - 7
Writer - 8
Student - 12
Teacher - 11


Second:

Mechanic - 16
Tracker - 12
Student - 1
(Bookbinding - 2)


Three Scholars have high stats in one or more skills, but no custom title.

First:

Surgeon - 12
Wound Dresser - 12
Student and Teacher - 1


Second

Tracker - 10
Student - 1
(Gem Cutter and Gem Setter - 11 each)


Third

Pump Operator - 11
Student - 1

[Halnoth]

Ah thx. That was it. I assigned the custom profession Scholar to all my Scholars to easier find them.

I have got the a.m. sage and 2 Engineers. The Engineers have following stats, just in case you are interested:

First:

Fluid Engineer - 11
Mechanic - 12
Optics Engineer - 7
Writer - 8
Student - 12
Teacher - 11


Second:

Mechanic - 16
Tracker - 12
Student - 1
(Bookbinding - 2)


Three Scholars have high stats in one or more skills, but no custom title.

First:

Surgeon - 12
Wound Dresser - 12
Student and Teacher - 1


Second

Tracker - 10
Student - 1
(Gem Cutter and Gem Setter - 11 each)


Third

Pump Operator - 11
Student - 1

The engineering skill layouts are expected though it is interesting to note that mechanic and naturalist apparently don't have ties (though that isn't unexpected). Would need more proof there.

The first scholar should be titled doctor or surgeon. Maybe if the dwarf gains skill you will see a change.

The tracker should be naturalist. Again gaining skill might cause a change.

I am not entirely sure pump operator gets a scholarly title. Gaining that skill is rare since the range of topics that can be discussed is super low (the screw is it I think and even that might be mechanic) I have only seen skill gain in that category twice. Both times it was on an engineering scholar, only 10 xp worth (so discussed one time), and I didn't see what the topic was.

[martinuzz]

Just got a new message:



He's an adequate critical thinker, no other academic skills beyond dabbling.

It caused him to immediatly take a "write about truth" job. I hope he doesn't need to pee before he finishes writing.

EDIT: meh, ah well better than nothing.

[Halnoth]

Just got a new message:



He's an adequate critical thinker, no other academic skills beyond dabbling.

It caused him to immediatly take a "write about truth" job. I hope he doesn't need to pee before he finished writing.

EDIT: meh, ah well better than nothing.

what skill did he gain from this? can you tell? My guess would be logic. I wonder how much if any skill gain occurs with a discovery. Discussing the topic probably netted 10-30 xp somewhere.