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[syvarris]

@Egan
You could take a mundane combat skill too, though yeah, you wouldn't be as useful as a specialized combatant.  You could also have a significant amount of input, though none is necessary.  Like I said, the idea does have a pretty significant flaw in that it requires teamwork and roleplay.  Oz has a good point; I just have a soft spot for cooperatively focused characters. 

Of course, if you can think of a specialization that does the opposite, you are welcome to propose it.

I was gonna make a joke about a character being optimized for the opposite of cooperation, but actually, playing an antimagic mage would be interesting.  I suppose Egan already kinda-sorta has one as a backup character, too.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

But noirs fathers realm was talked about its literally a black void with gray desolate islands scattered about its dark nothing really damn lives there besides noirs mother and father and used to be herself.Ive even mentioned when we were talking about in that pm that noir if she died her soul could potentially end up with her father and be revived though not able to influence anything and probably never leaving for thousands of years...so Ozark I honestly don't know what your talking about.

7Ah noirs perception of her father has never been fully understanding of him I suppose she has a hard time understanding his evil at times and would probably find that a little hard to believe that her father wouldn't help her at the drop of a hat.But then again he mostly hasent had to noir has not been injured much or needed her father's assistance much.But yeah I understand that.

this is kinda my argument for why noir dosent need to eat or drink because her father dident have to assist her that much that means he dident provide her with energy everyday for her to feed herself or get her water or food or something like that..so I find it unlikely noir is a creature that requires food and drink sleep I think is something they would probably need but yeah that is my kinda argument for why noir dosent need to eat or drink if this makes more sense.

[syvarris]

Spoiler: ATH, how about this? (click to show/hide)

Noir's father was a powerful god, who lived in his own self-made dimension, right?  It's a common trope to have a god's realm be, largely, an extension of the god itself.  The entire reality that he resides within is essentially an extension of his will--everything, the terrain, the air, the magic suffusing it all, is really an extension of the god himself.

Noir, being descended from the union of that god and a mortal cleric, is simultaneously both more and less a part of her father than the realm itself.  To some extent, his essence is diluted throughout the terrain, not being as concentrated as it is within Noir.  On the other hand, due to her mother, she actually is part mortal, a being who is truly alien to her father's realm to some extent.

This has benefits in multiple ways.  Her dark god half would be very much in tune with the reality around her, really being yet another extension of its essence.  It isn't that difficult to see how she could survive there without any external sustenance, because like everything else that exists within the realm, her life is maintained by the mere presence of her father's great power.  However, unlike everything else, which is fully reliant upon him, and would therefore wither and die when torn from his realm and placed in another world, Noir is still partially mortal--her own being--and she can therefore survive even when being completely isolated from her father's plane of existence.  He could still access her, of course, but it requires actual directed attention of some quantity for a god to stretch their influence into an entirely different domain, unlike how he sustained her without any concious effort while she existed at home.  Back then, the effort to keep her alive was no different than the effort of keeping the whole plane stable.

Does that make sense?

[Ozarck]

I scrolled back through our character generation conversation in regards to Noir. Thre is NO mention of her father's world being a dark void. there is No mention of Noir not needing sustenance.

And, ATH, listen carefully. I wold have balanced that. You would have lost something else that you currently have for that. Noir has a human mother and a father who is not exactly what Noir thinks he is, in many ways. And you had been warned about this kind of thing:

I think Reggie's main issue was a lack of sense of self-preservation. He really was his own worst enemy.

He didn't quite understand really that people would want to hurt him and he didn't understand the world... Ultimately his lack of knowledge killed him I think.

Yeah. Even Ebony, who knew little of Satyrs, could figure out that giving in to the song was a terrible idea.

But still, something else for you to learn from this: There is never anything the GM doesn't know about your character. That's how games work so you can't pull new abilities out of nowhere like you tried to do with the "Probably can't be mindwiped completely" thing. If there is anything Ozark doesn't know about your new character, I suggest remedying that as soon as possible.

This was in fact, directly in regards to Noir, so you had your chance for this, months ago (May!). That chance has passed.

[syvarris]

Why are the zombies not dead?  Does playing an undead char get you extra lives?  If so, what is the downside there?  I don't remember any undead characters having significant issues with charisma or anything, and that's quite the circumventable flaw anyway...

[Ozarck]

Why are the zombies not dead?  Does playing an undead char get you extra lives?  If so, what is the downside there?  I don't remember any undead characters having significant issues with charisma or anything, and that's quite the circumventable flaw anyway...

Because reasons. Read the post carefully for hints and clues.

I do remember rolling a few charisma rolls for Samuel when he was in Port Heron. Omega is full of people who have charisma issues, but Solam, for instance, has stayed generally out of situations where it would be problematic, and Samuel has acted quite rationally when there was a potential issue concerning charisma, so, like you said, it is a circumventable flaw. as is having low intelligence, or low strength, low ranged weapon skill, low unarmed combat skill, low general knowledge ...

[Lenglon]

Why are the zombies not dead?

Because its Asiin's fault.
also, on that note, make sure you outlive Asiin if you want a chance your char could be revived.
EDIT: Spelling

[AbstractTraitorHero]

..........I'm honestly considering retiring noir due to ic reasons......Due to......well her fuckups..her kinda confidence in herself is...a little shot...So I'm hoping when I get her back ill be able to see what is going on with noir and whether she decides to leave.If she does ill ask ozarck if we can work together on a short epilogue or something for noir.

[Egan_BW]

Why are the zombies not dead?

Because its Assin's fault.
also, on that note, make sure you outlive Assin if you want a chance your char could be revived.

Asiin.

[syvarris]

@Ozarck
That is an extremely unhelpful response, FYI.  If I hadn't have gone to look at Assin's Christmas wish, I wouldn't have had any more understanding, and would have just assumed the undead were alive again because they were undead.

Also, yes, all those skills are mitigable.  Which makes ANY of them being a tradeoff for immortality an utter joke.  That was my point; if the penalty for undeath is charisma, with the boon being immortality, that's not fair at all.

@AbstractTraitorHero
Don't worry, Dar will give Noir a pep talk as soon as we know that he's not murdering her boyfriend.

[AbstractTraitorHero]

alright syvaris got a back up character planned if that dosent work out....I'm gonna have em use bloodmagic....probably be interesting.

[Ozarck]

Sy, you know I am not one to give away immortality cheaply. Am I not having this very argument with ATH about Noir? Remember that guy that wanted to play the wasp queen, and send out her wasplings on missions?

But since it is an issue: These guys coming back are a direct result of Asiin's wish, and are, as Terrance is, not player characters anymore.

They can be killed again and it will be final, as there will be nothing driving their return. Not that that matters for the player. They've already lost their character.

Now, about fairness. The way I had intended this game to be set up was that two characters could be completely imbalanced in relation to one another in a variety of ways. A weak troll is still far stronger than a powerful cat, for instance. and a smart troll is still a fool by most standards. So if someone says "I want to be a robot" well, they get robot powers and problems. If someone says instead, "I want to be a bodyless leaf creature that doesn't believe in magic" they get powers and problems of a completely different nature. Zombies and other undead have some things going for them that other races (or rather, living versions of the same race) don't, and some things pulling against them that others don't. It might not be exactly balanced. But I don't really care about that as much as I am interested in giving real challenges, interesting experiences, and a fun game for each player. I try not to let any character break the game for the others, if possible, but I am not concerned about making all creatures equal and balanced either.

Of course, as varied as the initial set of characters was, some of my careful attention to base race imbalances got lost in the shuffle, but I think that worked out for gameplay purposes well enough.

[syvarris]

Umm.  It wasn't still an issue, I was just pointing out why your response had failed to be particularly helpful (Lenglon's was much more helpful), mostly due to your desire to avoid outright giving us knowledge.  My way of saying it was uselessly abrasive and roundabout, but I do think you should give us unprompted information that is important to playing our characters, even if our characters would not know that information themselves.  People really shouldn't need to ask whether they're still in control of their characters, or whether their characters are dead.

Secondly, I was saying that your excuse for the hypothetical unbalanced mechanic had little value, and implied you completely misunderstood my issue.  So I restated it to illustrate why I thought it would be an issue, even though it didn't actually exist--I'm just not the sort to let a good argument die, even if we don't disagree, okay?

Finally, as a response to your post's actual content: While I agree that just not caring about balance and letting people play at wildly different power levels is a perfectly reasonable excuse, I don't think it justifies everything.  The hypothetical-if-nonexistent zombie immortality would be a problem.  Almost nobody wants their char to die, so it pushes people towards playing undead just so they can get what they want more easily.  Additionally, I know from firsthand experience that you do indeed care about balancing characters.  Virtually every one of my various chars has had abilities nerfed or changed because they could have been abused.  Noir had significant changes made to her because she was originally the most powerful character in the game.  Were those changes for the better?  Yeah.  Do they indicate that you are "not concerned about making all creatures equal and balanced either."?  No.  Were they all necessary "not to let any character break the game for the others"?  Frankly, I'd argue not.  ^{_{Then again, I'd argue virtually anything.}}

[Egan_BW]

Best practice is to put [YOU HAVE DIED] at the end of any response that kills a character, imo.

[syvarris]

Damn it, ignore this.