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Author Topic: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System  (Read 33461 times)

Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2016, 07:26:07 am »

So why would a creature emit "arcanol" in its own tile as an attack?
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Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2016, 09:03:45 am »

I think I got it.

How about this?

The secret gives you an ability to meditate for spells. Meditation is a self-targeting action, not an attack. It can be a FREE_ACTION (i.e.instant) for simple spells, or it can take a long time for potent spells.

At the end of the meditation you get hit with a syndrome that gives you an ability to cast the spell once and also gives you 'arcanol poisoning', which is basically magic in your blood stream that has side effects that lead to dizziness, headache, reduction to speed etc.

So there are two different components: the "ammo" syndrome that lets you cast a spell once, and the poison syndrome that stays. If you meditate repeatedly you'll accumulate arcanol poisoning. You can't meditate for the spell again if it's already primed for use, so creatures in the wild with no valid attack targets won't spam it.

The syndrome that lets you cast a spell is gone when you cast it? That might be the tricky part.
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Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2016, 09:37:41 am »

Alright, more shenanigans.

As far as ammunition goes... what if meditation gave you extra body parts? Something named "spell thread: fireball" that is attached to your fingers. And that body part is required to cast a fireball... and an attacker can mess with it by wrestling it from you or cutting off the hand at the shoulder?

Then the tricky part is how to make that extra body part to disappear when you cast a spell? Hmph, back to square one.
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Dirst

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2016, 09:42:23 am »

Alright, more shenanigans.

As far as ammunition goes... what if meditation gave you extra body parts? Something named "spell thread: fireball" that is attached to your fingers. And that body part is required to cast a fireball... and an attacker can mess with it by wrestling it from you or cutting off the hand at the shoulder?

Then the tricky part is how to make that extra body part to disappear when you cast a spell? Hmph, back to square one.
You also can't add/subtract a bodypart via syndromes or interactions.  You can completely transform the body into a chosen CREATURE:CASTE, but that's more of a werewolf kind of thing.
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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2016, 09:54:09 am »

Yeah I might as well use a syndrome for having a "prepared" spell, but I don't have any way to decrease the ammo count.

I suppose I could reduce a syndrome's concentration by adding a negative value to it, but not on a usage_attack action, because can't target yourself. :(
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Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 10:51:45 am »

Would a [REAGENT:fairydust:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE] tag work inside of interaction?

If so, I could make meditation create fairy dust and then require spells to consume it.
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Putnam

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2016, 11:20:49 am »

No, REAGENT isn't an interaction token. You can't just sorta make stuff up.

Dirst

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 11:25:41 am »

No, REAGENT isn't an interaction token. You can't just sorta make stuff up.
You can require a bodypart to use an interaction, and you can require that the creature be able to vocalize, but you can't require a specific item.  In general, tems are manipulated with reactions, creatures/corpses are manipulated with interactions.  (Exceptions are that reactions can use vermin as reagents, and that some interactions can target tiles or weather rather than creatures).
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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 11:35:22 am »

So instead of fairy dust I need to conjure, and subsequently use up actual fairies? No problem. :)
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Putnam

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 11:46:21 am »

You can't conjure fairies, either.

Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 11:53:56 am »

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Interaction_token

Here it says that I_TARGET can be a MATERIAL.

And interactions can create materials, i.e. breath attacks of steel anvils and such.

Sounds like fairy dust idea is at least plausible.
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Putnam

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 11:56:42 am »

It can make materials, but it can't use them. That page contains every single thing interactions can do.

Dirst

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 11:58:30 am »

It can make materials, but it can't use them.
Make a material with a syndrome with a can-do-interaction symptom.

This is starting to remind me of the old raws-only method of spawning creatures.  It was phenomenally complicated, but at least it was unreliable :)
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Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Putnam

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2016, 12:26:04 pm »

It can make materials, but it can't use them.
Make a material with a syndrome with a can-do-interaction symptom.

But then the user has to drink it.

Roxfall

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Re: Secrets and the 0.42 Knowledge System
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2016, 12:58:27 pm »

Please don't get angry with me even though we're going in circles around this. Still trying to wrap my head around the conundrum.

So my current thinking is:

1. Meditate action gives you a syndrome that lets you cast a fireball and gives you SUPERNATURAL tag.
2. Casting a fireball requires SUPERNATURAL tag. It also puffs some gas on you at ground zero that gives you a syndrome that strips SUPERNATURAL tag from you. Sorta like defiler mages in Dark Sun.

I'm looking at interaction_standard.txt, and this section specifically:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can I write my own special version of [INTERACTION:MATERIAL_EMISSION_WITH_BLOWBACK] that goes something like this?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Will AI use such an emission as an attack? Or have I sufficiently obfuscated the fact that it'll puff some gas at ground zero?
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