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[mispy]

I'm curious-- if you start in a world where the dwarves have been wiped out and try to rebuild, what kind of differences are there? Is it possible to work your way back to a full-fledged civilization?

Notes from playing as a dead civ so far:

• You will get migrants, but they're generated out of thin air rather than historical. Nobody has any family relationships to start with. (I like to headcanon this as them all being orphans who have come to start a better life.)
• I've had sieges, caravans and outpost liaison arrival as normal.
• One of my original seven dwarves became queen "after a polite discussion with a local rival"! Sadly she then died in a zombie attack and the position went to some guy offsite.
• Barony progression happened normally, post-queen-death.
• You still get visitors, though I've had considerably fewer of them, and they're all human.
• After retiring the fort, I still can't make a dwarf adventurer. This may be a bug.

Checking out the new monarch in legends mode, I'm not sure he actually lives anywhere. He's a mysterious king-in-the-clouds:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Codyo]

Looks like you've found most of the differences. It may take another 50 years of history for your unretired fort to spit out new groups to colonize or conquer. Or it may not do anything. A player owned fort will probably not create underground tunnels to other fortresses or create Hill Dwarf towns surrounding the fort.

It's interesting that you still receive migrant waves as normal. People usually say you only receive two waves and that's it.

You should still retire forts and embark on new ones for years afterwards and report the outcome.

[mispy]

It's interesting that you still receive migrant waves as normal. People usually say you only receive two waves and that's it.

I've had migrants right up to the pop cap (which is currently at 80), so looks likes 0.42 will give you more than two waves.

[gestahl]

Since the last version took forts out of their time bubble dead civs will get all the traders and migrations you want. No idea if the traders-from-the-void go out and do world stuff when they leave thou.

[mispy]

Since the last version took forts out of their time bubble dead civs will get all the traders and migrations you want. No idea if the traders-from-the-void go out and do world stuff when they leave thou.

That solved the puzzle of who the king is, thank you! He is indeed one of the traders-from-the-void, as you can tell from the position in the legends list. I wonder if he'll come with the caravan next year...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Codyo]

Since the last version took forts out of their time bubble dead civs will get all the traders and migrations you want. No idea if the traders-from-the-void go out and do world stuff when they leave thou.

That solved the puzzle of who the king is, thank you! He is indeed one of the traders-from-the-void, as you can tell from the position in the legends list. I wonder if he'll come with the caravan next year...

He should, whenever your fort qualifies to be the Capitol, the king will come in the next caravan with some nice bodyguards.

[PatrikLundell]

It sounds the civ isn't dead but dying.

According to a knowledgeable forum member in another thread [0.40.24] there are some differences between dead and merely dying civs, and you can't tell pre embark which you actually have:
- A dead civ doesn't have any important figures in the civ screen upon embark.
- A dead civ doesn't have a monarch and won't get one. If you do get one the civ is "merely" dying. There seems to be two ways of getting a monarch for a dying civ: Either a "polite discussion..." or a flat out assumption of monarchship at the one year mark, in which case it seems it usually is the expedition leader that becomes the ruler in my experience (can be used to get a non mandating ruler...).
- A dead civ provides the two mandatory migration waves, but no more.
- A dead civ doesn't get any dwarven caravans.

It's been said a dead civ can be rebuilt by building up several fortresses from scratch to reasonable populations. I don't know if that's correct, though.

[SaD-82]

It's been said a dead civ can be rebuilt by building up several fortresses from scratch to reasonable populations. I don't know if that's correct, though.

It is.
It does need some time and work, indeed, but I managed to bring a dead civ back to life (at least in 0.40.24).
It helped a lot to play adventure mode between my fort runs - just to weaken nearby goblin civs and destroy semi-/megabeasts so that my forts could prosper.
Now, in 0.42.xx I guess it's much easier, because of working sieges (therefore a lot more dead goblins while you're playing) and your visitors who can become part of your fort.

[Geltor]

It's been said a dead civ can be rebuilt by building up several fortresses from scratch to reasonable populations. I don't know if that's correct, though.

quite an impossible feat according to my experience. as soon as you build a new fort, the population of the old fort migrates to the new ones, leaving them almost empty from 200 to 10-30 dwarves

[Inarius]

What is very interesting, though, is that, if you retire from your first fortress and try another one of the same civilization, most of your first waves will be dwarves from your first fort.
I have had 3 fortresses in a world and had one soldier following me each time.

[SaD-82]

quite an impossible feat according to my experience. as soon as you build a new fort, the population of the old fort migrates to the new ones, leaving them almost empty from 200 to 10-30 dwarves

Setting the max-residents to a suitable number helps a lot in the beginning, if you're starting new forts along the line.
Give it some time and your dwarves will breed more babies than you will loose to migrant waves.
Tested.

[Szkeptik]

I'm currently playing a map where my civ is dying, but there is still one dwarven civ that I belong to. I don't get liaisons with the caravans, but I do get migrant waves.

[gestahl]

It sounds the civ isn't dead but dying.

According to a knowledgeable forum member in another thread [0.40.24] there are some differences between dead and merely dying civs, and you can't tell pre embark which you actually have:
- A dead civ doesn't have any important figures in the civ screen upon embark.
- A dead civ doesn't have a monarch and won't get one. If you do get one the civ is "merely" dying. There seems to be two ways of getting a monarch for a dying civ: Either a "polite discussion..." or a flat out assumption of monarchship at the one year mark, in which case it seems it usually is the expedition leader that becomes the ruler in my experience (can be used to get a non mandating ruler...).
- A dead civ provides the two mandatory migration waves, but no more.
- A dead civ doesn't get any dwarven caravans.

It's been said a dead civ can be rebuilt by building up several fortresses from scratch to reasonable populations. I don't know if that's correct, though.

I've had good and dead civs where only the first one was true. My current fort is sitting at 103 dwarves and when I founded it no dwarf had been alive for at least 1000 years.

[PatrikLundell]

This is what Loci states:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154633.msg6665834#msg6665834

[gestahl]

This is what Loci states:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154633.msg6665834#msg6665834

Then he's wrong about the no population part, I have all the signs of Loci's defn of a struggling civ except every single dwarf (and goblin) has been dead for thousands of years.