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Author Topic: DF v0.42.06 Worldgen Cookbook Thread!  (Read 52601 times)

vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 10:47:47 am »

... You added two chunks of high rain, a chunk of mid rain, a chunk of low rain, and a bunch of very low rain. Everything 75 degrees. Very low drainage with a chunk of very high drainage. Why? And why does it generate flat volcanos?
The rain/drain chunks are for elves and humans to settle.
As far as volcanos go, it's a bit of a fluke that they produce flat, but what it comes down to is volcanos are added after worldgen is mostly done, and as far as I can tell, the height they generate to is chosen arbitrarily, and then the surrounding land is elevated to match.  Sometimes it matches with the embark level, and you get a flat one.  Sometimes it's under the embark level, and you get lava tubes.  Using a low base elevation and fewer volcanos generates more flat ones.  If you increase the number of volcanos, they tend to form adjacent to each other and raise the overall elevation dramatically in that area, leading to fewer flat volcanos.
To get a flatter world overall (because some people love perfectly flat embarks) you can designate a small area, 3x3 where that's the only place volcanos can form, and then it will create a mountain where your dwarves can settle, without having to use any high elevation at all.  This permits very thin (as in pancake/crepe) worlds, where it can be less than 20Z from embark to magma, far closer than typically having a volcano on the surface (which is almost always more than 20 steps away).

So, while it's true that having a nice big river and volcano on the surface is ... cool, it's a killer on FPS.  Having an embark with no surface trees, no surface water, no surface rain, a tiny piece of aquifer for water, and magma easily accessible beneath allows for forts with up to several hundred dwarves while still maintaining >100FPS.

Do you guys really let it run for a thousand years?  I cut it off at 75 myself, knowing that it robs me of a lot of legends and world development, because my computer starts to take about one minute per year after about 100.  I suspect by the time it reached a thousand it'd be practically realtime.
There's a few settings that let you have longer histories in a few seconds/minutes.  The the number of civs, the population cap, and the number of sites.  If you only have 4 civs (goblin, dwarf, elf, human) with biomes to match, and under 5 sites per civ, and say under 1000 pop cap, worldgen is quick.  If you cull out the uninteresting historical figures, it's even faster. 
My 10,000 year 42.02 demonstration world took less than 5 minutes to generate, for example.
However, it should be noted that if you have megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, titans, and very evil worlds filled with dozens of thousands of goblins, getting all the civs to survive to the 10,000 year mark can be almost impossible.
Even with no enemies or evil of any kind, races can still go extinct, even with 3 or 4 civs of each race at the start.

Romeofalling

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 01:00:51 pm »

There's something seriously non-linear with the world generation. Per-area, a pocket region takes much less time to step than, say, a large region. Not surprising, however.

Well....yeah. It's a nested exponential process. Generating the map itself is an Order N process, but for each embark tile you have to generate base geologic composition and then evolve it over time, that's O(xy2), at least. Arbitrarily selecting water sources is another O(x), as is the initial civilization layout, but then it evolves those over time, generating events in their lives, checking for births and then assigning relationships to everyone, including dead people -- that is O(xy^z) at least. That's why you get such a processor boost removing unimportant people from history.

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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 01:33:11 pm »

Found this interesting embark while doing some testing.

I think this is the smallest an "ocean" can be, and still have waves.  :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

cochramd

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2015, 11:38:28 am »

Speaking of world-painting, last thread I asked for an embark and got it, but there was a problem I hadn't foreseen: there was only one dwarf civilization, and it consisted of one fortress, and the only other civs were goblins. This is because I wanted my embark to be a certain biome, and thus no mountains, forests and plains were created for dwarfs, elves and humans respectively. So my question is this: how can I use the world-painter to put a swath of mountains, a swath of forests and a swath of plains onto a world and let the rest be generated into tropical wetlands? Or would the better solution be to paint a huge swath of tropical wetlands and stick volcanoes inside them, then let the world generate naturally?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 11:41:59 am by cochramd »
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exdeath

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2015, 04:34:19 pm »

For anyone that cares, this is the paremeters that you get when you average all worldgen parameters of this version (only advanced ones), rounding to nearest and rounding up if .5

Its the same as the previous version, the stuff changed was embark points and pole

[WORLD_GEN]
   [TITLE:ALL MIX]
   [DIM:129:129]
   [EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
   [END_YEAR:1050]
   [BEAST_END_YEAR:136:80]
   [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
   [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
   [ELEVATION:1:400:636:636]
   [RAINFALL:0:100:156:156]
   [TEMPERATURE:25:75:156:156]
   [DRAINAGE:0:100:156:156]
   [VOLCANISM:0:100:156:156]
   [SAVAGERY:0:100:156:156]
   [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:1:1:1:1:1]
   [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
   [POLE:NORTH_OR_SOUTH]
   [MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500]
   [MEGABEAST_CAP:20]
   [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:40]
   [TITAN_NUMBER:9]
   [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
   [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
   [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
   [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
   [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14]
   [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14]
   [SECRET_NUMBER:28]
   [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
   [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
   [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:18]
   [GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
   [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:17:165:263]
   [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:17:165:263]
   [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:9]
   [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
   [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:2]
   [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
   [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:168:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:168:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:670:2:2]
   [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:1341:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:1341:1:1]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:8:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:16:0:0]
   [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:1341:2:2]
   [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:1341:2:2]
   [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:226]
   [RIVER_MINS:66:66]
   [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
   [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
   [SUBREGION_MAX:2825]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
   [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
   [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
   [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
   [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
   [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
   [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
   [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:20]
   [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:18]
   [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
   [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
   [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:21]
   [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
   [SITE_CAP:578]
   [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
   [ELEVATION_RANGES:5224:2758:1379]
   [RAIN_RANGES:1314:2629:1314]
   [DRAINAGE_RANGES:1314:2629:1314]
   [SAVAGERY_RANGES:1314:2629:1314]
   [VOLCANISM_RANGES:1314:2629:1314]
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2015, 05:26:53 pm »

Speaking of world-painting, last thread I asked for an embark and got it, but there was a problem I hadn't foreseen: there was only one dwarf civilization, and it consisted of one fortress, and the only other civs were goblins. This is because I wanted my embark to be a certain biome, and thus no mountains, forests and plains were created for dwarfs, elves and humans respectively. So my question is this: how can I use the world-painter to put a swath of mountains, a swath of forests and a swath of plains onto a world and let the rest be generated into tropical wetlands? Or would the better solution be to paint a huge swath of tropical wetlands and stick volcanoes inside them, then let the world generate naturally?
This isn't an exact answer to your question, but this should help a bit.
This is a pre-set values (world painter) artificial world that generates to create all 5 civs (dwarf, goblin, human, elf, kobold) pretty consistently, with a 1000 year history.  Most of the time, all the civs make it to the finish line. :) I tested this world and saw dwarf and elf carvans, kobold thieves, and goblin sieges.  Rejections are low, and it generates in under a minute.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2015, 06:32:26 pm »

I don't see this very often, but here's an example of a world where dwarves are at war with elves.  :o

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

LordUbik

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2015, 10:06:03 pm »

Hi guys!
I need some advice here! I love to play with coal of some sort (lignite or bituminous) but it's usually really hard to find, expecially woth other features that I like (no trees, a useful metal, proximity with gobbos...). Is there a way to increase coal generation chances without setting a higher level of minerals?

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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2015, 01:39:38 pm »

Another testing/reference worldgen for 0.42.x:

Temperate conifer forest, warm, south half of evil forest ("The Unnameable Forests") is Haunted (wilderness savagery + evil), dead trees, undead animals, reanimating biome. No evil rain/clouds.
1000 year history.
South half the map has no aquifer.
Embark Neighbors are Dwarves, Elves, and Humans.
Generates with no rejections, so it should work cross-platform, if you ever have a need to test something in such an environment.
Enjoy!  8)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

EDIT:

And a worldgen that features a Terrifying forest (untamed wilds + evil), giant undead animals, dead trees, reanimating biome, and steel friendly.
All races as above, 1000 year history and embarks with or without an aquifer.  Generates without rejections, and No evil rain/clouds, as well.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 04:22:14 pm by vjek »
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RhoOphuichi

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 11:52:13 am »

I'm looking for an embark with a good cavern - fairly open, several z-levels high. Multiple cavern layers would be great too. I can deal with an aquifer I'd prefer not. Materials for steel would be a plus. As for the surface, I'm flexible - I'd like a river. I prefer lots of trees. But whatever.

I'd love to build something like the amazing Rhymedmansion- a fortress focused around the caverns.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2015, 11:55:28 am »

I'm looking for an embark with a good cavern - fairly open, several z-levels high. Multiple cavern layers would be great too. I can deal with an aquifer I'd prefer not. Materials for steel would be a plus. As for the surface, I'm flexible - I'd like a river. I prefer lots of trees. But whatever.

I'd love to build something like the amazing Rhymedmansion- a fortress focused around the caverns.
Do you want enemies, or giant animals/animal men, HFS, or just peace to build?

cochramd

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2015, 03:55:04 pm »

Alright, so here's what I want:
  • 33x33 Region
  • 50 year history
  • 3x3 embark
  • Volcano
  • Savage biome (any)
  • River
  • Hot biome (any)
  • Iron and gold ores
How do I get it? I've already figured out world size, history length, volcanos and savagery, it's everthing else that's giving me heck.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 03:58:07 pm by cochramd »
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2015, 07:06:02 pm »

... How do I get it? I've already figured out world size, history length, volcanos and savagery, it's everthing else that's giving me heck.
most iron bearing ores (except hematite) are found in sedimentary layer stone.
gold forms in igneous layer stone.
volcanos only form in igneous extrusive layer stone, not sedimentary layer stone.
The game does it's best specifically to NOT run rivers next to volcanos.

So... yeah, even if you use preset-values, it's challenging and doesn't always work.  The number of times I've randomly generated a river next to a volcano, with iron bearing ore, without having to use 50+ layers and mineral scarcity of 100, in a 33x33? 
Certainly less than a dozen per year.  Out of thousands of worldgens.  And then when it does work, the FPS is horrific, compared with other options.

<IMHO>
If you want to save yourself an immense amount of time and frustration, you may want to reconsider why you need the river and why you need the volcano.  It's trivial to generate a thin world with magma less than 20Z from the surface, and a partial/tiny aquifer with infinite safe water.  That is, if the goal of a river and volcano is access to fresh water and nearby magma. 
Specifically, if you embark on anything larger than a 1x1 volcano, 20Z magma below will always be closer than walking to the volcano on the surface, from the wagon. :)
</IMHO>

cochramd

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2015, 07:16:44 pm »

<IMHO>
If you want to save yourself an immense amount of time and frustration, you may want to reconsider why you need the river and why you need the volcano.  It's trivial to generate a thin world with magma less than 20Z from the surface, and a partial/tiny aquifer with infinite safe water.  That is, if the goal of a river and volcano is access to fresh water and nearby magma. 
Specifically, if you embark on anything larger than a 1x1 volcano, 20Z magma below will always be closer than walking to the volcano on the surface, from the wagon. :)
</IMHO>
Well, I want the volcano for 2 reasons:

A) So that I can start using magma forges, smelters, kilns and glass furnaces sooner
B) So that I can obsidian cast sooner

The river I also want for 2 reasons:

A) Don't have to dig for water, can breach caverns whenever it's convenient
B) So that I can obsidian cast sooner

Now, I'm not particularly attached to 3x3 embarks, so maybe I should focus on what details are really important to me:
>iron, flux and coal are on the same embark as a volcano
>river never freezes over
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Jefthefirst

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2015, 11:06:16 pm »

Does this world look a little familiar to anyone else?  :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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