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[umiman]

I thought it would be nice to clear it once and for all to avoid any further misconceptions (even I am confused at this point). The question is:

"Do elves and humans siege now?"

The facts we currently have:
1. Elves and humans sieged in the 2D version
2. Elven sieges started when you disregarded the quota on woodcutting
3. Human sieges started when you slaughtered their caravans

If anyone can provide conclusive proof that elven and human sieges occur in this version, therefore it must be true. Let me also propose that if such proof can't be provided, therefore, elven and human sieges won't happen and changes pertaining to such should be added to the wiki.

[Dasleah]

Elves (Forest Civ) have the [AMBUSHER] tag, and so will Ambush you if you annoy them enough. They lack a [SIEGER] tag, and thus will not siege you.

Humans (Plains Civ) have the [SIEGER] tag, but not the [AMBUSHER] tag. So if you annoy them, they'll siege you but not ambush you.

It's all in the raws, people.

[umiman]

There are also wizards and treants in the raws. I won't dispute that it exists in the framework, but do they actually occur as of now? Do you have say... a screenshot or a savegame of an actual elven or human siege as is?

[Duke 2.0]

There are mounting tags in the raws. How many animals can you ride on? How many humans, elves or dwarves have you seen riding animals(Caravans don't count)?

Invisible hard-coded features beat the raw's any day.

Although I would like to see definite proof.

[Cavalcadeofcats]

...how many goblins have you seen riding animals? (Hint: probably lots)

[umiman]

After a day, still no proof? I think we should wait till the end of the week before making a final decision. If nothing comes up, I really hope people stop telling lies to the newbies and getting their hopes up.

[BurnedToast]

I never managed to get the humans to siege before, even after drowning the caravan 5 years in a row (or so). This was quite a few versions ago and I never had more then 80 dwarves (or whatever) so it does not mean a whole lot I guess.

I really want to try and get them to seige but my computer is just too poor for me to collect enough dwarves even on smaller maps.

As a bit of a starting point for anyone who wants to test it, I'm pretty sure the elves only 'sieged' in the 2d version if you broke the treecutting quota so if you are trying to get them to attack you should definitely go on a woodcutting spree after they tell you not to. As for the humans, I understand they cared alot more about the diplomats then the caravans so be sure to kill them too!

[umiman]

Hmm hmm hmm...

Three days and still nothing yet.

[Dasleah]

Three days and you haven't even bothered to find out for yourself, either. We're not your own personal army of Q&A Monkeys, you know  

[ May 26, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[umiman]

I have actually. I've tried to get them to siege since the 3D version came out. But no one would take me seriously if I posted my results, which is... nothing. I've killed tonnes of merchants but of course, like I said, no one would take my word for it since I started this thread.

So I await someone (most likely noone) to provide proof.

All I want is people to stop telling blatant lies to newbies, getting their hopes up for nothing.

[ May 26, 2008: Message edited by: umiman ]

[Dasleah]

Well, the tags are there in the raws. If you can't get them to siege, then it must be something hard coded, or at least something buggy with the [SIEGER] tag itself (as you'll notice that the Goblins don't have that tag either, but they most certainly do siege. Dwarves also have the [SIEGER] tag, strangely)

Maybe it's the [BABYSNATCHER] tag that decides if a race sieges you currently? Goblins are the only ones who have that tag.

[umiman]

I agree with that sentiment. If there were any chance that it were possible to get other races to siege, I would embrace it with open arms (provided they don't halfheartedly send babysnatchers every season or so (actually... that would be kinda cool. Heh heh... hippy babysnatcher) since I'd love more opportunities to slaughter, maim, and kill.

But anyway, it doesn't change the fact that it probably doesn't happen unless you mod the game. Which is why posts like those in here: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=002606

and here: http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=11&t=002602

and the wiki's "verify": http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Siege

are all potentially misleading and quite cruel to newbies.

NOTE: Before anyone says I'm being holier-than-thou by preaching for the newbies, let's just say that any veteran player probably wouldn't be affected by the outcome of this. But a newbie who has zero experience in the game and is happily learning new things as he plays his 3rd fortress is a different matter. Like that guy who was told that magma cools by itself. Yeah.

[ May 26, 2008: Message edited by: umiman ]

[Surma]

Magma DOES cool by itself when it's disconnected from its source (a magma vent).

so HAH

[zagibu]

Well, the elves thing can be tested, but how do you kill humans? I think drowning chambers will not count as murder, as the AI probably can't make the connection from the spontaneous inside flood to the racist dwarven mayor.

[Gaulgath]

In the 2D version, I was able to get the humans to siege me by seizing all of their caravan's stuff. I have been doing this many times in the latest version but I have been unable to get them to attack my fortress. This, and the fact that other players have been destroying human caravans and still not getting an attack, leads me to believe the feature is currently defunct.