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Author Topic: Hearts of Iron IV  (Read 104892 times)

Glloyd

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #285 on: June 13, 2016, 01:20:25 am »

Could you guys just make a thread in general discussion if you're going to keep arguing about Chamberlain's motives so we can get back to discussing the game?

Radsoc

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #286 on: June 13, 2016, 04:01:52 am »


Labling the USSR a "totalitarian" government with no elections is just wrong.
How should they have done it?

However, I think there's a fallacy when you're labeled paranoid when dealing with a supposed trotskyite plot, and basically a failure when you end up with a civil war (for some reason) when you don't deal with it (so in reality you weren't paranoid in the first place).
Why? That actually sounds realistic, and a common Paradox event where both options are bad for you. As for your accuracy concerns, the whole point of Paradox games are you deviating from what actually happened with some degree of realism, so you can have cool stuff like Poland nuking Germany.

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Accuracy in the way that makes communists being depicted as communists and not just some kind of hijacked stereotype. So in a way, to keep the accuracy of all other characters or actors of a play except potentially yourself, while leaving the plot open (i.e. Poland nuking Germany).
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WealthyRadish

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #287 on: June 13, 2016, 02:19:05 pm »

I actually think HoI3's HQ system is one of the worst systems Paradox has ever invented.  You have multiple different HQ units, all of which have different radio ranges and need to be in range of different units.  And then whenever the front moves forwards or back you have to move all of them alongside it.  Its a mess, and there's very little to justify it as there's no good way to gank enemy HQ units aside from them messing up.  The only thing to recommend it was the multiple leader levels for each troop, but even then it had the effect of diluting the effects of a commander and making all armies feel about the same in terms of command effectiveness.  You might have one unusually good commander in EU but in HoI 3 you're hardly going to get any noticeable difference when there are 5 levels of command.  And its not like anyone was going to each province like "this specific group of 3000 infantry needs +20% chance of elastic defense tactic."

This is probably too technical for a discussion here, but what's important to realize about HoI3 OoB is that the leader skill bonuses from most HQ levels aren't important (division and army group skill levels are the only relevant ones really, and sometimes theatre), and that trait dilution is at a relative level. So an "Army Group" that in reality only has 5 divisions directly attached to it will have the army group leader give 50% of their traits bonus to those divisions, as though they were a corps leader, and 25% from the theatre commander. This means that you can make a lean and flexible OoB where radio range and the need to constantly move many HQs forward is much less important, while having more concentrated trait sharing in places where it's relevant. You can have an army group with 4 divisions and an army, have a smaller force of <25 divisions that skips corps and armies altogether, or use any combination of configurations to get the quantity of divisions, radio range, or traits you want, and for me I find that extremely enjoyable to work out and see in action.

Even if you stick to a more rigid OoB as a major, there are benefits to having some small groups get a trait for river crossing, offensive/defensive, terrain specialty, etc, and it's only homogeneous if you choose to structure it that way.

I somewhat agree with the "press a button not to trip" analogy, but only because it's the AI that can't handle a complicated OoB, making a well-made OoB a player-only advantage. In HoI4 this AI disadvantage is improved, but only because the system has been made as brainless as possible. I would rather just give the AI +15% combat efficiency or something than cut out what I would consider one of HoI3's defining mechanics; maybe OoB could've been trimmed down a bit or made more focused on specialization rather than general bonus stacking, but eliminating it completely is almost a dealbreaker on its own for me (it's along the other changes that also make HoI4 feel like EU4 in WWII that bother me enough that I'll be steering clear of it).
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #288 on: June 13, 2016, 03:00:09 pm »

Speaking of WW2 misunderstandings, I think one of the worst ones is thinking the Nazis just wanted to kill the Jews. After all Jews were just half of the victims of the Holocaust and the Holocaust itself was just the beginning. After that, there were things ready for the Hunger Plan that would have killed 30 millions. Plus political and "hygienic" cleansings on top of that. 

This is the reason everyone should beware hatemongers, as sometimes the rhetoric they employ is not just a rhetoric but an actual ideology they will be more than willing to put into action if given a chance.

If I remember the Man in the High Castle (the book, not the show) correctly, the victorious Germans weren't known for killing the Jews - they were known for wiping out all of Africa (real world 1950 population ~225 million).
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Glloyd

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #289 on: June 13, 2016, 05:21:44 pm »

Paradox is at it again with their shitty memes.

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forsaken1111

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #290 on: June 13, 2016, 05:53:09 pm »

I thought it was pretty funny
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #291 on: June 13, 2016, 06:00:22 pm »

5/7
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #292 on: June 13, 2016, 06:34:24 pm »

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Culise

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chaoticag

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #294 on: June 13, 2016, 06:51:23 pm »

So just a general question over here. What would you guys recommend as a nation that would help me learn the game faster? The big nations seem pretty big and intimidating so far.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #295 on: June 13, 2016, 06:56:50 pm »

So just a general question over here. What would you guys recommend as a nation that would help me learn the game faster? The big nations seem pretty big and intimidating so far.

The Netherlands is a fun first nation and con contribute a lot to the war effort with the proper care. Sweden would probably be a good start. Nothing happens in S. America. You could try Japan as you would go largely uncontested.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #296 on: June 13, 2016, 06:57:23 pm »

So just a general question over here. What would you guys recommend as a nation that would help me learn the game faster? The big nations seem pretty big and intimidating so far.
If you don't want to play the tutorial, pick whichever country strikes your fancy. You'll lose the first few games anyway, so just jump in and see how it goes.

I've played three games so far as Yugoslavia, Portugal, and France, and got my arse kicked every time. It's great fun.
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Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #297 on: June 13, 2016, 07:00:56 pm »

some tips right off the bat, infantry are the best defense. Combined with air superiority/air support they're an incredible obstacle to overcome. A good attacking army is harder to come by.
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Aedel

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #298 on: June 13, 2016, 07:07:23 pm »

So just a general question over here. What would you guys recommend as a nation that would help me learn the game faster? The big nations seem pretty big and intimidating so far.

Play as the US to be honest.

1. You can learn naval invasions and conquest mechanics with the Venezuela national goal
2. You learn how to cause coups
3. You learn naval combat by dealing with Venezuela and Japan 
4. You have time to learn actual war without being overrun thanks to being on another continent
5. You have a generous industry already to let you figure out how economics work through experimentation

I played the US my first game and I figured it out very quickly.
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mainiac

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Re: Hearts of Iron IV
« Reply #299 on: June 13, 2016, 07:08:57 pm »

China is probably the easiest.

Step 1) Build infantry
Step 2) Use infantry.
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