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[Wayward Garden]

From the 0.42.01 changelog:
"Alcohol causes inebriation, erratic behavior, unconsciousness, death"

I've always liked the idea of a 'dry' fortress, but I never really bothered pursuing the idea because I didn't like my dwarves slowing down and there was no real drawback to letting them drink. I figured dwarves simply metabolized alcohol differently than humans and therefor my human aversion to the stuff didn't apply. Now that alcohol is acting more like the drug that it is, I'd very much like to see a viable way to ween my fortress populace off of the stuff, namely by having the slowdown associated with not consuming alcohol be made temporary, and perhaps adding other physiological and psychological symptoms of withdrawal that need to be dealt with before a dwarf (or any other alcohol-dependent fortress denizen) becomes properly and permanently sober. Naturally, these problems shouldn't exist in the first place for dwarves (et al.) that are born and raised without any exposure to alcohol.

I'm not suggesting that prohibition should be easy. It certainly hasn't been in any historical sense. It could cause large amounts of tantrums and crime to deal with (is smuggling a thing in DF yet?).

A few related suggestions:

• Greater variety of non-alcoholic drinks (fruit juices/ciders, herbal teas, etc.)
• Soberness as a potential tenet of worshiping certain gods, and immigrants of related faiths entering the fortress (usually) sober
• Prohibition related crime (smuggling, speakeasys, etc.)
• Greatly reduced likelyhood of alcoholic drinks as favorites of characters born and raised sober

[Deboche]

I like this but since dwarven obsession with alcohol seems to be so prevalent, I also think that dwarves should suffer more effects from not drinking it. They should lose their beards, become taller, hate being underground, start to like nature more and so on.

[Icefire2314]

I like this but since dwarven obsession with alcohol seems to be so prevalent, I also think that dwarves should suffer more effects from not drinking it. They should lose their beards, become taller, hate being underground, start to like nature more and so on.

Well I don't think their dwarverness comes from being drunkards. If they stop drinking they shouldn't turn into elves..

[Vattic]

I'm not entirely certain how the most extreme abstinent dwarves are going to be handled in the long run.  Either the slowing effect will go, or there just won't be dwarves that are that abstinent (at least personality-wise -- there could be room for philosophically abstinent dwarves).

I figured the permanent effects would make the commitment to abstinence more significant.

[Deboche]

Well I don't think their dwarverness comes from being drunkards. If they stop drinking they shouldn't turn into elves..

Not turn into, I guess. But if they don't drink will they really still be dwarves?

[Wayward Garden]

Well I don't think their dwarverness comes from being drunkards. If they stop drinking they shouldn't turn into elves..

Not turn into, I guess. But if they don't drink will they really still be dwarves?

Personally, alcohol consumption is not high on my list of what makes a dwarf dwarfy. Stature? Yes. Beards? Absolutely. Stubborn pride and generational grudge bearing? You betcha. Drinking? Meh.

Certain topics, including drug use, even legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco, make me extremely uncomfortable, even in games (especially for characters under my direct control or indirectly in my care). Even if many of my dwarves still try to drink, being able to establish some sort of fortress-wide policy against it would go a long way towards addressing my discomfort.

[Deboche]

I understand. I think alcohol consumption is in the game both to add challenge and as part of DF's charm. Your lack of comfort is unfortunate but I don't think most DFers feel that way. If you try to make a videogame that doesn't make anyone in the world uncomfortable in any way, you end up with something like that "game" where you are a leaf in the wind and just get blown about.

[IndigoFenix]

Besides, it's not like you can't mod alcohol dependency away with the deletion of a single tag.  If you want to add non-alcoholic drinks, you can do that too.  It will even be balanced, since alcohol now gives good thoughts as part of its syndrome; a juice-sustained fortress will be less drunk but you'll need to work a little harder to keep your dwarves happy.

[DrunkGamer]

So you basically want to remove alcohol, one of the things that make dwarfs dwarfy, because you find it uncomfortable?

Yeah, sorry but no. Alcohol is a must have for the full dorfy experience.

[Vattic]

I dunno a pious king who tries to force abstinence on his subjects could be interesting, or a religious sect who put up with the slowdown as a kind of personal sacrifice.

[Meph]

Just a sidenote: According to the raws, the dwarven liver is twice the size as a human liver, which means that it makes sense that they are somewhat more resistant to alcohol.

[Wayward Garden]

I dunno a pious king who tries to force abstinence on his subjects could be interesting, or a religious sect who put up with the slowdown as a kind of personal sacrifice.

I like these examples. Perhaps the religious sect could teach its faithful some kind of technique (meditation?) to temporarily remove or at least partially mitigate the slowdown. Perhaps simply worshiping at an appropriate temple would have said effect, decaying over time until they worship again.

Besides, it's not like you can't mod alcohol dependency away with the deletion of a single tag.  If you want to add non-alcoholic drinks, you can do that too.  It will even be balanced, since alcohol now gives good thoughts as part of its syndrome; a juice-sustained fortress will be less drunk but you'll need to work a little harder to keep your dwarves happy.

Thanks for the suggestion. I may do just that for now, but I'd still like to see a viable drug-free fortress lifestyle a vanilla option for those interested.

So you basically want to remove alcohol, one of the things that make dwarfs dwarfy, because you find it uncomfortable?

Yeah, sorry but no. Alcohol is a must have for the full dorfy experience.

I respect your entitlement to your opinion, which is why my suggestion would in no way remove alcohol from the game or prevent you from running your fortresses however you have been. I also respect my entitlement to my opinion, in which a somber, ascetic dwarf is at least as dwarfy as a rambunctious, drunken one.

[Trappington]

Perhaps some middle ground is in order...

Maybe dwarfs could have a chance to have or develop a "prone to drunkenness" trait, where they consume booze in excess quantities.  All other dwarfs drink alcohol along with other things such as water or juice and aren't at risk of becoming frequently drunken, though every now and then they might indulge.  The likelihood that an individual develops the "prone to drunkenness" trait is based on certain personality characteristics and the availability of alternative drinks.  A lack of alcohol could still result in a slowed down work force (as we know, dwarfs "need alcohol to get through the working day"), but its presence wouldn't cause a huge drunkenness issue.

[Vattic]

Trappington: You may be happy to know that what you suggest, minus some details, is already how it works.

Are we likely to see some dwarves become the fort drunk?

Yeah, dwarves are different and some are more likely to run into trouble.

I suspect it's the IMMODERATION personality facet that does it.

It's also worth noting, as Meph pointed out, that dwarves are already somewhat immune; You are less likely to see drunkenness than non-dwarf civs.

[Bumber]

I dunno a pious king who tries to force abstinence on his subjects could be interesting, or a religious sect who put up with the slowdown as a kind of personal sacrifice.

Read this out of context and thought of Shakers. Feels like it's already happening as of DF2014.