Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

On a scale of 1 to 10 how bad is this

Healthy
Common Cold
Stomach aches
Mild influenza
Food poisoning
Influenza
Dysentery
Influenza whilst immune compromised
Ebola
Spanish flu

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 11

Author Topic: Post anti-biotic world  (Read 17067 times)

Jopax

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cat on a hat
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 01:50:34 pm »

Which is what makes it scary, just like climate change. It's slow enough that the general public can't be arsed to care until it's too late to do anything about it.
Logged
"my batteries are low and it's getting dark"
AS - IG

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 01:50:43 pm »

claims of anti-biotic-less world are greatly exaggerated

also I find it ironic that Russia (along with over post-Soviet states) is apparently so backwards in medicine that it's actually on the forefront

dem integer overflows man
This is actually a very fascinating phenomenon of how the US and USSR managed to get on different techlines. If the Soviet Union hadn't spurned antibiotics research in favor of phages this'd be a much rawer science.

Anyway, I place people who don't use antibiotics correctly on the same level as anti-vaxxers: Scourges of the human race who deserve no sympathy. Unfortunately, unlike with vaccination doctors are a large part of this problem in that they appease patients who don't actually need the meds, sometimes including those who don't even have a bacterial illness! This is why I believe there should be explicit laws restricting the distribution of antibiotics to people who actually need them.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2015, 02:19:52 pm »

I do love the concept of doctors encountering infections and just adding more virus until the bacteria are dead "As a bacterium becomes resistant to one phage — by shedding the receptor on the cell surface that the virus uses to enter — the Eliava Institute researchers simply add more phages to the viral cocktails that patients receive. Kutateladze says that they update their products every eight months or so, and do not always know the exact combination of phages that make up the cocktail."

"Doctor was is in this?"
"I dunno. Lots of viruses."
"What kind?"
"Many kinds :D"

miauw62

  • Bay Watcher
  • Every time you get ahead / it's just another hit
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2015, 02:26:08 pm »

isnt burning contaminated stuff sort of sop when youre dealing with epidemics

also eventually we will have bred bacteria to just be inert bricks made of diamond so they cant be killed by anything :^]
Logged

Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

i2amroy

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats, ruling the world one dwarf at a time
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2015, 02:28:55 pm »

"Doctor was is in this?"
"I dunno. Lots of viruses."
"What kind?"
"Many kinds :D"
Sounds like a very stereotypical Russian thing to say.
"Doctar, what is in tis?"
"Do not know, lots of viruses."
"Viruses?"
"Da, many kinds!"

:P
Logged
Quote from: PTTG
It would be brutally difficult and probably won't work. In other words, it's absolutely dwarven!
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - A fun zombie survival rougelike that I'm dev-ing for.

itisnotlogical

  • Bay Watcher
  • might be dat boi
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2015, 02:36:44 pm »

claims of anti-biotic-less world are greatly exaggerated

also I find it ironic that Russia (along with over post-Soviet states) is apparently so backwards in medicine that it's actually on the forefront

dem integer overflows man
This is actually a very fascinating phenomenon of how the US and USSR managed to get on different techlines. If the Soviet Union hadn't spurned antibiotics research in favor of phages this'd be a much rawer science.

Anyway, I place people who don't use antibiotics correctly on the same level as anti-vaxxers: Scourges of the human race who deserve no sympathy. Unfortunately, unlike with vaccination doctors are a large part of this problem in that they appease patients who don't actually need the meds, sometimes including those who don't even have a bacterial illness! This is why I believe there should be explicit laws restricting the distribution of antibiotics to people who actually need them.

I personally always thought antibiotics should be administered during a doctor visit and kept out of the patient's hands. Doctors do fuck up, but patients fuck up a whole lot more when they're allowed to self-administer. Completely ridiculous and untenable, but then so is every ideal scenario.
Logged
This game is Curtain Fire Shooting Game.
Girls do their best now and are preparing. Please watch warmly until it is ready.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2015, 02:42:20 pm »

I personally always thought antibiotics should be administered during a doctor visit and kept out of the patient's hands. Doctors do fuck up, but patients fuck up a whole lot more when they're allowed to self-administer. Completely ridiculous and untenable, but then so is every ideal scenario.
3 doses a day of amoxicilin every day for two or three weeks? Can't really be done by doctors for practical reasons. Maybe just have doctors stress the importance of sticking to the prescription under the mantra that no symptoms is not the same as no illness.

Culise

  • Bay Watcher
  • General Nuisance
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2015, 02:56:02 pm »

isnt burning contaminated stuff sort of sop when youre dealing with epidemics

also eventually we will have bred bacteria to just be inert bricks made of diamond so they cant be killed by anything :^]
Not historically and not consistently.  While many were burned, many other victims of the Black Death were still buried, albeit in a manner transitioning from traditional individual graves to mass pits as death tolls rose and the available and willing workforce declined.  Cremation was frowned upon at a minimum or outright forbidden under law in many places in Christian Europe, and in these locations was traditionally a punishment for heretics (who were not always alive when it happened; this isn't referring to burning at the stake). 

EDIT:
Also, completely unrelated, but I just looked up some of Sir Thompson's arguments for the legalization of cremation in the 19th century, including that it would prevent premature burials.  Well, I mean that it's technically accurate, but...

((Also added a clarification that this is under Christian law, since it concerns the Black Death in Europe.))
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 03:02:45 pm by Culise »
Logged

itisnotlogical

  • Bay Watcher
  • might be dat boi
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2015, 02:59:03 pm »

I personally always thought antibiotics should be administered during a doctor visit and kept out of the patient's hands. Doctors do fuck up, but patients fuck up a whole lot more when they're allowed to self-administer. Completely ridiculous and untenable, but then so is every ideal scenario.
3 doses a day of amoxicilin every day for two or three weeks? Can't really be done by doctors for practical reasons. Maybe just have doctors stress the importance of sticking to the prescription under the mantra that no symptoms is not the same as no illness.

People have proven extraordinary degrees of dumbfuckery in the face of better-educated people giving them sound advice. Hence the situation we face today.
Logged
This game is Curtain Fire Shooting Game.
Girls do their best now and are preparing. Please watch warmly until it is ready.

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2015, 03:01:23 pm »

I personally always thought antibiotics should be administered during a doctor visit and kept out of the patient's hands. Doctors do fuck up, but patients fuck up a whole lot more when they're allowed to self-administer. Completely ridiculous and untenable, but then so is every ideal scenario.
3 doses a day of amoxicilin every day for two or three weeks? Can't really be done by doctors for practical reasons. Maybe just have doctors stress the importance of sticking to the prescription under the mantra that no symptoms is not the same as no illness.
People have proven extraordinary degrees of dumbfuckery in the face of better-educated people giving them sound advice. Hence the situation we face today.
To be fair doctors can also fall afoul, like in India where there was a panic because Doctors were prescribing one type of antibiotic at a time instead of all the required antibiotics for certain illnesses so bacteria were developing resistance to them one at a time

miauw62

  • Bay Watcher
  • Every time you get ahead / it's just another hit
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2015, 04:12:49 pm »

isnt burning contaminated stuff sort of sop when youre dealing with epidemics

also eventually we will have bred bacteria to just be inert bricks made of diamond so they cant be killed by anything :^]
Not historically and not consistently.  While many were burned, many other victims of the Black Death were still buried, albeit in a manner transitioning from traditional individual graves to mass pits as death tolls rose and the available and willing workforce declined.  Cremation was frowned upon at a minimum or outright forbidden under law in many places in Christian Europe, and in these locations was traditionally a punishment for heretics (who were not always alive when it happened; this isn't referring to burning at the stake). 

EDIT:
Also, completely unrelated, but I just looked up some of Sir Thompson's arguments for the legalization of cremation in the 19th century, including that it would prevent premature burials.  Well, I mean that it's technically accurate, but...

((Also added a clarification that this is under Christian law, since it concerns the Black Death in Europe.))
We're talking about the future though, I know that cremation wasn't a big thing during the Plague.
Logged

Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

LordBucket

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2015, 06:06:39 pm »

Remember that your body will fight bacteria without sources of external antibiotics. Stay clean, be healthy, don't roll around in the dirt during surgery, and this doesn't need to be a catastrophe.

Also remember that there are plenty of antimicrobials that aren't pharmaceutical antibiotics. For example, alcohol, heat, UV light, silver, electrical current and oxygen are all still extremely effective at killing bacteria. Applying hydrogen peroxide to a wound, for example, is no less effective than it used to be.

But hydrogen peroxide is cheap to produce, you see. This is more a concern for pharmaceutical company profits than it is a health concern.

MetalSlimeHunt

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gerrymander Commander
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2015, 06:09:30 pm »

A. All the health practices in the world won't help you against a catastrophic staph infection.

B. Antibiotics are uniquely effective at killing bacterial pathogens while you're infected by them.

C. Hydrogen peroxide in commercially available concentrations does not do anything good for your wounds, it just hurts and looks dramatic so people believe in it.
Logged
Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Quote
No Gods, No Masters.

LordBucket

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2015, 06:27:40 pm »

A. All the health practices in the world won't help you against a catastrophic staph infection.

You are factually incorrect. A person who is clean and healthy will be more resistant to and better able to fight infection than a person who is not.

Quote
B. Antibiotics are uniquely effective at killing bacterial pathogens while you're infected by them.

You are factually incorrect. There are other antimicrobials that are effective at killing bacteria "while you're infected by them" besides antibiotics. Antibiotics are not at all unique.

Quote
C. Hydrogen peroxide in commercially available concentrations does not do anything good for your wounds, it just hurts and looks dramatic so people believe in it.

You are factually incorrect. Source: the Center for Disease Control

"Microbicidal Activity. Hydrogen peroxide is active against a wide range of microorganisms, including bacteria, yeasts, fungi, viruses, and spores "

"Commercially available" H2O2, as in, what you can buy in brown bottles for $2 at the grocery store, simply has industrial pollutants in it that make it unsafe to take internally. That is not a concern for external application. And for internal application, food grade hydrogen peroxide is extremely available and only slightly more expensive.

And of course, if we're talking about use by doctors, "commercial availability" is irrelevant anyway.

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Post anti-biotic world
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2015, 06:35:59 pm »

The problem isn't people who are healthy though, it's people who are already compromised in some way, like the kinds of people you'll find in a hospital.
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 11