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Yes, we need one anyway.

17 (21.8%)

No, we should take that elsewhere and keep this thread as-is.

27 (34.6%)

I don't care, let's see what happens.

34 (43.6%)

Total Members Voted: 75

[Vattic]

Uh, electronic surveillace bracelet are already widely used for prisoners on parole, it's not exactly a new technology.

Seems an odd option for such potentially serious criminals. The only thing preventing someone removing a tag is the potential penalty if caught (and it doesn't stop them reliably). If you were removing it for an attack why care? At most you'd have to take care not to alert the officials you'd been tampering with it.

From what little I know of Electronic Tagging (their use/abuse/misuse/non-use in the UK, specifically), the item is attached with a (theoretically) tamper-proof strap, with regular inspections to ensure there's no undue wear (accidental or on purpose) to it.  At its most passive a strap damaged enough to permit removal stops the tag acting as the safeguard (e.g. checking in with the 'home station' at a certain time(/times) each day to indicate proximity to the curfew household, lest the lack of such a check-in mobilise the authorities to seek the tag-wearer out, or at least send out a repairperson/parole-checker to deal with whatever fault is discovered from the initial call to their home as a first action). 

This is all true, and I based my post largely on what l've read about the UK tagging system too. A lot of people remove their tags. If you want a laugh the right wing press over here particularly like stories of people slipping them. YouTube even appears to have tutorials.

[Kumil]

Remember, Citizen number 57894081 : Islam is a religion of peace, and refugees are your friends. Now, get back to work.

[inteuniso]

At the end of the day, West Asia is further destabilized, US grand strategy continues to be successful.

[Willfor]

Remember, Citizen number 57894081 : Islam is a religion of peace, and refugees are your friends. Now, get back to work.

"Actually, it's 2 billion people on this planet who are the problem instead of all 7 billion of us."

This sarcastic take on "religion of peace" is great until you realize that if it wasn't true we'd all be dead already.

[TempAcc]

Or if they weren't too busy killing eachother :v

Seriously though, many conflicts in muslim history were against other muslims, for several different reasons, and not just because of the whole Sunni vs Shia thing, which has been around since Mohammed died.

[Bohandas]

Remember, Citizen number 57894081 : Islam is a religion of peace, and refugees are your friends. Now, get back to work.

"Actually, it's 2 billion people on this planet who are the problem instead of all 7 billion of us."

This sarcastic take on "religion of peace" is great until you realize that if it wasn't true we'd all be dead already.

Isn't it possible for people, even a majority of people, to be peaceful despite their religion (as defined by holy texts, dogma, it's founders, etc) rather than because of it?

And isn't it also possible for these people to then incorrectly conclude that the content of their religion is peaceful due to post hoc ergo propter hoc?

[Willfor]

Isn't it possible for people, even a majority of people, to be peaceful despite their western civilization (as defined by a sense of superior values, dogma, it's founders, its need to constantly berate other cultures for not seeing the enlightment of, etc) rather than because of it?

And isn't it also possible for these people to then incorrectly conclude that the content of their secular superiority is peaceful due to post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Or if they weren't too busy killing eachother :v

Seriously though, many conflicts in muslim history were against other muslims, for several different reasons, and not just because of the whole Sunni vs Shia thing, which has been around since Mohammed died.

WWI, WWII.

[TempAcc]

Really though, no ammount of historical revisionism or sofisms will change the fact of just how endemic conflict and war is to Islam. This tends to be a feature of any major religion with its roots in pre-medieval/medieval times. The difference is that Islam preserved a lot more of its old dogmas, and as such, it has remained more violent then others.

The Quran proudly mentions Muhammad genocided entire pagan tribes, and lets not forget that Islam is responsible for the erradication of Zoroastrians, or its bloodthirsty persecution of jews, something which is expressively mentioned in both the Hadith and the Quran. The Quran also highly values conflict as a way of gaining favor with Allah/God:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward"

source

_{Now, before the fedora squad decides to attack, keep in mind I acknowledge that many other major religions, including christianity, have been involved in major conflict and violence through the ages. Leave the fervorous worship of athe for the religion thread}

[Willfor]

How is that a muslim thing and not a human thing though? Warfare is endemic to humanity. It's almost like we enjoy splitting into factions, and beating each other over the head. Can we please stop saying we're all fucking above this, and saying that Islam is the one with the problem? Surely we all have enough sense to see that this is a human problem.

[TempAcc]

I think its important to note when the actual dogma expressively condones and celebrates the killing of certain ethnicities and of anyone who does not abide by it, just saying. Its kinda hard to associate that with ~a religion of peace~. There's also the fact that there are entire countries suffering due to a huge terrorist surge based entirely around fanatic Islamic religious killing, that condones the killing of non combatants, too, and this is happening right now. Sure, people are shitty, but trying to throw a curtain over the problem by entoning the old adague of "humans are jerks" is kinda silly, or maliciously dishonest.

Or if they weren't too busy killing eachother :v

Seriously though, many conflicts in muslim history were against other muslims, for several different reasons, and not just because of the whole Sunni vs Shia thing, which has been around since Mohammed died.

WWI, WWII.

Thanks for reminding me:

Arab Muslim leader the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini met with Adolf Hitler on 21 November 1941.[63]

Prior to the meeting, in June 1940 the Mufti offered his services to the Nazi Reich government. In 1941, he went to Berlin via Tehran, where he explained to the German ambassador, Erwin Ettel, his plan to bring all Arabs under the banner of Pan-Arabism over to the side of the Axis (25 June 1942). Here he came out unconditionally for the "final solution" of the Jewish question, calling on the Germans to wipe out all Jews, "not even sparing the children."[64]

[Willfor]

Shaking my head right now.

[RedKing]

...Does Netanyahu have a sock puppet account now? 

[Helgoland]

Lemme try to get this debate in a more productive direction: Since Islam is not going to vanish off the face of the earth any time soon, what can be done to reduce support for terrorism in Muslim countries and among the marginalized Muslim communities in the Western nations?

[SirQuiamus]

Lemme try to get this debate in a more productive direction: Since Islam is not going to vanish off the face of the earth any time soon, what can be done to reduce support for terrorism in Muslim countries and among the marginalized Muslim communities in the Western nations?

Let's pretend that the terrorists don't exist and it's all just a false-flag Zionist conspiracy.

[Sergarr]

Lemme try to get this debate in a more productive direction: Since Islam is not going to vanish off the face of the earth any time soon, what can be done to reduce support for terrorism in Muslim countries and among the marginalized Muslim communities in the Western nations?

Invade Saudi Arabia

No seriously they've been the birthplace of most radical islamic movements, it would do world a lot of good if you put it under UN control and erase their "absolute monarchy" regime off the map.