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[Artheon]

So.  Deerchamber was the name of my rather successful fortress.  Good location, nothing fancy; no lava or sand, but food and drink was plentiful, and goods were being pumped out.  The army was strong and the first siege was no match.

I had designed a tower, mostly as a lookout/fancy-looking thinger, which I then decided to use as a marksdwarf spot.  Then I re-decided to tear it down (since it was in the way) and build a thicker wall with fortifications.

Storytime over.  I built my tower like this;

####
#SF#
####

Really tiny. S for stairs, # for walls and F for floor. On the first level, I had a support in place of the floor, but skipped this later because a friend said that it wasn't needed to protect against cave-ins anymore.  I assume this was wrong on -some- level, but anyway.

I built it five stories high before I began deconstruction.  I cannot remember how I deconstructed the first floor, but it went fine if I remember.  Then, the collapsing started.

Disclaimer: I know continuing the deconstruction along the same rules was foolish, but each time I felt I had a better way of doing it (as in, trying to walk around the floor tile then disassembling it from the stair etc etc)

Five times during deconstruction, it collapsed, each time killing or horribly injuring someone.  The fifth (where I finally got the hint) killed two.  Half the total casualties (10) were children.  (Why are they helping with this?  Tearing down walls, children? O.o)

Queston 1: How would you (safely) deconstruct such a tower?
Also, would it have gone better in any way if I built a column atop the floors every time?  Is this possible?  

Okay.  Further on, after this, some of my dwarves went and threw tantrums, which is understandable given the amount of deaths, especially children.  Again, I'm well aware of how foolish this was.  But I felt what happened was a little extreme: Tantrums spread like a disease, and over the last half hour, despite my efforts, my population is down from 113 to 71.  Neglecting to build a subterranean lake so the injured can't get water (this happened in winter, whee) just amplifies the effect, and speaks volumes of my nubness, I guess.

Question 2: Is there any way to stop tantrums when they take a hold like this?

I had lots of pets, a strong guard force (prison capacity, which was over the recommended number, is blown) which helped jack when the guards themselves started throwing tantrums, and it was generally a mid-tech utopia before this crap happened.  No soap/baths, no dyed clothing, no mist-covered statue garden, but pretty damn near everything else.

I really want to know if tantrums, when they get a hold like this, mean doom for the fortress, or if this can be salvaged.

[Captain Mayday]

It's true you don't need supports anymore. Stairs will act as supports as well. So long as a floor is connected to other floors or walls, it will be suspended.

However, the quickest way to deconstruct such a tower actually uses supports.

First, knock out all but one supporting wall from the bottom, and stick a support under there.
Remove the final wall, and the bottom layer of steps.

Link the support to a nearby lever, and pull the lever.

Note that this is only a good idea if you have a solid platform beneath it, not just floor tiles, as the collapsing tower will break through them.

[Skanky]

1. Deconstructing from the top down tends to be safer

2. The population should stabilise eventually, as should the survivers. Bad thoughts have less effect the further in the past they are.

[Pandarsenic]

quote:Originally posted by Captain Mayday:
<STRONG>Note that this is only a good idea if you have a solid platform beneath it, not just floor tiles, as the collapsing tower will break through them.</STRONG>

Yeah, if you don't have solid ground beneath it, that's a very bad idea. I think it'd be possible to sink a whole fortress with a carefully placed tower drop.

[Captain Mayday]

quote:Originally posted by Pandarsenic:
<STRONG>

Yeah, if you don't have solid ground beneath it, that's a very bad idea. I think it'd be possible to sink a whole fortress with a carefully placed tower drop.</STRONG>

That would be pretty awesome to see, however.

[Pandarsenic]

quote:Originally posted by Captain Mayday:
<STRONG>

That would be pretty awesome to see, however.</STRONG>

Like I said, with careful placement. You'd probably have to:

A) Plan it meticulously.
B) Make it ENORMOUS so it just destroys everything.
C) Get incredibly lucky/unlucky.

Heehee, you should make a copy of Nist Akath, build a stone tower with all other jobs off, and see how much of the fortress you can destroy.

[Captain Mayday]

Nah, the Aquifer is a fairly protective level, so the damage wouldn't get more than 2 levels down.

[Artheon]

Cheers for the replies!  Good info about construction there, but I'm still confused as to EXACTLY why it collapsed, since I had actually deconstructed everything from the above layer when I set to work on a new one.  Perhaps a stray boulder I forgot.  Or I didn't read the replies carefully enough.  Will give it a second read, but I'm really posting to say..

It didnt.  The pop didn't stabilize.  The chain effect of tragedies was amplified by the fact that I couldn't give proper burials (i.e coffins) to those hurt.. and then someone went on a rampage and hacked off the legs of a child so it bled to death.  And a puppy fell off/died in the tower somehow.  Pop was down to below 50, with the entire army destabilized, and just about all useful members of society dead when I decided to just tear off a wall and let the bloody river finish me off.

..Except it was a very well-built fortress, if I may say so, so it just flows down my main hall, can't reach the living areas or any shops, and out through the garbage cliff/chute.  It did reach my food storage because someone kicked down a door at some point, and my barracks are flooded, but s' really a carecake.  I may, and I say may, have been able to rebuild, but in a way it'd be worse than doing it from scratch (hate ze baron!), and I'd lost my legendary starting crew.  

Was good fun tho, and I relished taking over the nobles' tombs right before us starter dwarves died. xd

[Mulch Diggums]

I like the controlled cave in method. You build a wall and a set of stairs a few tiles away from the tower and build a walk way of floors from the wall to the second floor . you knock out all the walls of the first floor so the walk way of floors is all that is keeping it up. Next you just deconstruct one of the floor tiles and the whole thing falls down without casualtys or mutch effort.
Hope that made sense?

[Pandarsenic]

quote:Originally posted by Mulch Diggums:
<STRONG>I like the controlled cave in method. You build a wall and a set of stairs a few tiles away from the tower and build a walk way of floors from the wall to the second floor . you knock out all the walls of the first floor so the walk way of floors is all that is keeping it up. Next you just deconstruct one of the floor tiles and the whole thing falls down without casualtys or mutch effort.
Hope that made sense?</STRONG>

I personally like the idea of a Collapse Everything Lever, so I might modify that to just a grate or something to hold it up, if that would work.

CAN a grate suspend something in the air?

[Furious Fish]

Wow, I've never thought of giving my entire fortress a self-destruct mechanism before.

[Pandarsenic]

quote:Originally posted by Furious Fish:
<STRONG>Wow, I've never thought of giving my entire fortress a self-destruct mechanism before.</STRONG>

Well, it can be difficult to do.

EDIT: Since, obviously, undermining an expanding fortress is absurd, suspending junk ABOVE your fort is more reliable for the self-destruction. You can expand it along x/y axes fairly easily.

EDIT EDIT: Of course, with proper motivation... *Points to skills below "Pandarsenic"*
[ January 23, 2008: Message edited by: Pandarsenic ]

[ January 23, 2008: Message edited by: Pandarsenic ]

[Captain Mayday]

quote:Originally posted by Pandarsenic:
<STRONG>
I personally like the idea of a Collapse Everything Lever, so I might modify that to just a grate or something to hold it up, if that would work.
CAN a grate suspend something in the air?</STRONG>

No, it can't.

Clarification: I know a FLOOR GRATE can't. Not sure if Wall grates offer support.

[ January 23, 2008: Message edited by: Captain Mayday ]

[Pandarsenic]

quote:Originally posted by Captain Mayday:
<STRONG>

No, it can't.

Clarification: I know a FLOOR GRATE can't. Not sure if Wall grates offer support.

[ January 23, 2008: Message edited by: Captain Mayday ]</STRONG>

Hmm. I typically blow crap up with supports at corners all linked to one lever (just for the epic points), so it doesn't matter much. I just thought it'd be cool to drop the first floor on it all.  
Alas. Is there any non-Support, Lever-linkable structure that is able to hold stuff up?

[Captain Mayday]

No, I don't believe there is.