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[Chromatic Wasp]

Chromatic Wasp

On how he balanced the game?  Clone lord's minions can become the clone lord, or they all have his powers, if we get one then he can still act through his cult, and he starts with one, its how I would have done it.  As for third parties, I would say there would probably be a survivor, reporter type person, can't think of much else.

I can't be the only one who thinks that this was an excessively detailed explanation of a "hypothetical" scum mechanic that we just got from filipk, can I? I mean, that just all seems really, really specific. Not only specific, but a lot of the information seems a little vague, as if he's communicating knowledge he feels we should know just as well as he does. Almost as if he's not quite grasping that he might be a little more familiar with scum roles than us, not to mention how that might not be a good thing to let us know.

But that's just my opinion.

I've made red and green bits in your quote, because they seem to be mutually exclusive to me. How can something be detailed and specific, but also vague at the same time?

It just strikes me as a little weird that you're going for something and explaining it in a way that doesn't make sense as a reason for voting filipk - which is different from everyone else - as though you're trying to look like you're not jumping on a band wagon...

Perhaps it's just the way you presented things. Could you clarify, please?

In retrospect, I should have never made that post. It was very much giving into the reactions of others, and in some ways it was kind of hopping on a bandwagon. I mostly didn't want to seem like I was lurking, but it seems I ran into the problem of posting without really having anything to say. With that said, I'm going to unvote , and try not to pretend I know what the hell I'm doing.

[Megggas]

SabertoothTiger is this your first game of mafia? of bay12 mafia?

Please. Why are you voting to lynch somebody without a real reason? I think you are hoping to get a kill early on, so that being cult is easier for you.

SabertoothTiger, if you think fillipk is cult, then why are you neither interrogating him nor voting for him?  You also seem overly defensive in every one of your posts.  Do you know how to scumhunt?
(pfp)

[hector13]

In retrospect, I should have never made that post. It was very much giving into the reactions of others, and in some ways it was kind of hopping on a bandwagon. I mostly didn't want to seem like I was lurking, but it seems I ran into the problem of posting without really having anything to say. With that said, I'm going to unvote , and try not to pretend I know what the hell I'm doing.

Unvote

Well I did ask you a few questions here that you could've answered.

I'm not sure how to take this. You kind of admit to lurking, but wanting it to look like you're not, while bandwagoning too... hm.

I guess I want to see some activity from you then, CW. Fillipk hasn't gone from my thoughts, but I don't want to focus on him too much just now.

[Deus Asmoth]

Night and day don't mean much in space, but the hours of arguing are taking their toll on everyone. With no clear suspicions on who should be here and who shouldn't, though, it seems like you'll all have to keep talking for a while longer.

tntey has been poked.

Votecount:
fillipk (1): FallacyofUrist
FallacyofUrist (1): fillipk
SaberTooth Tiger (1): Megggas
Chromatic Wasp (1): hector13

[Chromatic Wasp]

I'm not sure how to take this. You kind of admit to lurking, but wanting it to look like you're not, while bandwagoning too... hm.

Ok, hold up. You misunderstood what I mean when I say I don't want to seem like I'm lurking. It's not that I'm trying to lurk, and hoping to convince you that I'm not. I'm saying that some of you guys post a lot more often than I do, so I'm worried it'll seem like lurking to you, and I just want to stay out in front of accusations. That being said, I wasn't sure who those questions were addressed to initially, but Now that I know they were for me...


How are you coping with the pacing of the game?

I try to keep a baseline of one post per forum page, at least granted it's D1 and this is my first Mafia game on B12.

What do you think "playing defensively" entails?

Being prepared to stand against accusations by townreading well and winning the trust of your fellow townies, as well as avoiding making yourself a target for murder at the hands of malicious parties.

What makes you think that town is weaker and requires playing more defensively than scum?

Simple fact: Scum knows who they are (at least on an individual basis), but we don't. Scum has the power of night killing more often than town does, though there are exceptions on both end. A well-playing scum can influence the actions of a town, but a town can rarely convince a scum to turn against their own teammates in likewise fashion. Because this game is all about knowledge, and scum has knowledge that we need to win (specifically, the identity and capabilities of the scum), they have an upper hand. Granted, town-based pr's have hidden information of their own which gives town an advantage above scum, but a VT is usually at a disadvantage against the scum based on the front of knowledge alone.

How do you think we could play offensively as town?

Well, it would help if we chose a townleader who we knew for a fact was clear, but that has to wait until we, well, have a clear. If we also made sure not to tip our hands as to the identities of our roles so that scum wouldn't have that information, we still have that information and that power as our leverage and our weapon.

[fillipk]

We can't make a town leader because this is a cult not a Mafia, it gives the cult leader a target that is better then a power role, and we won't know if he has been turned or not, all in all a bad idea, I would honestly prefer if we each worked on our own suspicions and reads rather then going along with one person.

[Megggas]

I checked tntey's profile a few minutes ago and saw that he was online.  He went offline just now.  I hope he posts soon.

Day 1 ends tomorrow.  We should propose our final cases soon.  Late tonight, I'll return with my full list of reasons why I'm voting SaberToothTiger, unless he says or does something to change my mind.

[Chromatic Wasp]

We can't make a town leader because this is a cult not a Mafia, it gives the cult leader a target that is better then a power role, and we won't know if he has been turned or not, all in all a bad idea, I would honestly prefer if we each worked on our own suspicions and reads rather then going along with one person.

I see what you're saying, but at the same time, until we get some form of coordination,getting any real conclusive information is going to be a little chaotic. I understand that everyone working as their own investigative force might work for now, but we'll eventually need some higher form of discussion structure, whatever that may be. A house divided against itself and all that. But that's just my opinion on things in general. It's a bridge we can cross when we get there.

[hector13]

We can't make a town leader because this is a cult not a Mafia, it gives the cult leader a target that is better then a power role, and we won't know if he has been turned or not, all in all a bad idea, I would honestly prefer if we each worked on our own suspicions and reads rather then going along with one person.

I see what you're saying, but at the same time, until we get some form of coordination,getting any real conclusive information is going to be a little chaotic. I understand that everyone working as their own investigative force might work for now, but we'll eventually need some higher form of discussion structure, whatever that may be. A house divided against itself and all that. But that's just my opinion on things in general. It's a bridge we can cross when we get there.

PFP

CW

What do you mean "higher form of discussion"?

You mentioned earlier that one way of playing defensively would be to avoid the scum's attention. How would you do that?

How do you think the cult are trying to avoid attention from the town?

As Megas pointed out, we're nearing the end of the day. Who do you think is scum, and why?

[fillipk]

Honestly, I think Chromatic Wasp is scum.  He is who I meant when I talked about sabertooth a bit ago.  He has been coming off as a very passive player and the only time I have seen him attack someone was when he jumped on my bandwagon with a contradictory post.  I feel like he is trying to organize the town which seems good, but at the same time setting us up for the cult to take control. 

PFP

[hector13]

Bugger it. Extend.

PPE: Unvote, in case I forget later.

[flabort]

To Everyone: I would really like to thank all of ya for giving me friendly advice, it really means a lot.

You're welco - wait, I didn't give you any advice! This thank you is addressed wrong!

flabort

flabort

Basically, if the scum aren't bright enough to come up with the same ideas on their own, they can attempt to use the strategies that we are attempting to come up with counter-strategies for.

So back to the question: Agree or Disagree?

Mmm... I'm going to say I lean toward disagree, will tell y'all why after you've answered Megas' question.

OK, I've answered.

Basically when we're theorising about scum strats, we're not actually scum-hunting.

We might not be the bright ones, and miss the strategy the scum are actually using, and an issue with laying out strategies is we may fall into the trap of "these are the only strategies that the scum might use, so we should pick the most likely one they're using and act as such"

Scum might drop in a few false strategies that we might then waste our time coming up with counters for when they're not ever going to be considered by the scum.

Finally, it allows the scum to cherry-pick the best bits out of any strategies that we come up with, maybe doing something we can't counter.

So... 7 - 8 minds aren't bright enough to out-think 1-2 minds?
No, I know, if we're discussing it it means that discussion power isn't going to scum hunting, but if we don't discuss it, will we be doing more scum hunting or will we be wasting time not discussing anything?
Obviously getting stuck in a trap of thinking that one strat is superior to another is wrong, which is why we would have to brainstorm a whole lot.

I hadn't considered the scum creating falsehoods... [/NotLikeTheyEverDo]

OK, though, that last point I can't argue against. There isn't a counter for everything, I have to admit. I can't think of what things we can't counter right now, but there must be a couple, right? If you can think of any, don't tell us, though.

I can confirm that there is at least one boring, power-less role.

Ehh, so you're claiming too?  Does your role flavor text mention a superhero name like fillipk's?

(pfp)

I don't know if his does, but mine does. Withholding that name for now, thanks, but there is a name.

I guess I got a bit ahead of myself and your right my theory is kinda looks stupid now, and apparently is wrong if people are to be believed, but it has had two effects on this game.

1. If I avoid getting lynched and people start calming down and seeing me as town I've made myself a target for the cult as a realitively safe convert and someone with a power role

2. It stirred up a hornet's nest of new content to analyze and maybe find scum.

Yes FoU, my vote was kinda reactionary trying to find someone else to suggest as scum, wish I had paid more attention to the sabertooth post.

1) How do we know you haven't already been converted, FillipK?
2) But how much does that content help us find scum?

I checked tntey's profile a few minutes ago and saw that he was online.  He went offline just now.  I hope he posts soon.

Day 1 ends tomorrow.  We should propose our final cases soon.  Late tonight, I'll return with my full list of reasons why I'm voting SaberToothTiger, unless he says or does something to change my mind.

Will do. I'll go over everything again and look for anything I've missed, then post a reads list. Maybe if I get time before the day ends tomorrow, maybe tonight if I'm lucky.

Bugger it. Extend.

PPE: Unvote, in case I forget later.

Oh, yeah, this exists. Extend

[fillipk]

You don't, but if the scum had that power, which I doubt, it would be a brilliant move.

You can look at how people responded to my suggestion, and at who didn't respond since it has been about a day.  The scum could be sitting back and reveling in all the chaos created, soaking up the juicy bits of information, it's what I would do.

[Megggas]

Oh, duh.  Extend.  Thanks for the reminder, hector.

(pfp)

[fillipk]

Extend I guess