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Author Topic: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread  (Read 13739 times)

Shoruke

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2015, 12:52:36 pm »

Are all my gatherers just chilling in my town?
Yes.
Well, they're gathering stuff every turn, too. They'll do it automatically every turn as long as they're not under siege or something.
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BluarianKnight

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2015, 01:06:00 pm »

Hey uh, did I not make the civs? I swore I signed up before any other halflings, but I'm not listed.
If I wasn't caught, I wanted to be lightfooted halflings..
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2015, 05:23:53 pm »

This looks quite fun, I think I'll join as a civ.

Which humans are which? I want the ones without the river.

Edit: Probably Highlands Humans.
Town name: Valor's Stand.


Edit edit: Do we start with any buildings in our towns?
How would a teleport network improve the adventurers city-visiting?
Can civs with advanced structures use them to help the others? (IE, the first player to get a research lab building teleporters at every capital).
If we have a network of supply lines, do we have instant trades with allies, and can we help each other with sudden crises as easily as we could our own towns?
Do we need a Shrine to Armok for our capital?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 06:31:30 pm by Nirur Torir »
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Omeganaut

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2015, 08:40:53 pm »

So it looks like Humans are geared to build a lot, probably with fewer settlements, as well as scout.  Halflings on the other hand are geared to build a lot of settlements and supply food.  Dwarves are underground and defensive, while Elves love forests and can boom with good placement.  It seems Humans may want to focus on infrastructure, Elves on scouting for more forest, Dwarves on tunneling and Halflings on more settlements perhaps?For new settlements, elves and dwarves should go build more outwards, and humans and halflings closer to Mt. Olympus at it appears right now.  For building settlements, scatter them in an L shape for optimal gathering efficiency.  Like below

[ ] [t] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
[ ] [ ] [ ] [t] [ ] [ ]
[t] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [t]
[ ] [ ] [t] [ ] [ ] [ ]
[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [t] [ ]
[ ] [t] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

Things to clarify before I make a move: First off, what's the rules on trading food/wealth/resources?  Obviously right now we would need to send a party to carry everything, but once we have roads and vehicles and harbors and things how would that change?  Because I'm thinking halflings should focus on food, dwarves on underground, elves on resources, and humans on building.  Addendum:  can we "borrow" population like laborers from other groups, or at least have them build something in our city with their speed and cost boosts?  Because if we can organize that, it could really boost our development across our team.  Plus if anyone is building a settlement, halfling gatherers could lug materials over much better than anyone else.  That brings up another point that being a nice player, I'd rather hash out early than rules lawyer later. Can my gatherers carry stuff as well as gather new stuff while moving to a new settlement? Also:  do we have to maintain population levels for towns and cities?  And what about population growth?

As for the sites, which one are you guys thinking?  I'm currently leaning towards the Mountain Forest Ruin just because it would help the dwarves develop easier, and they look like they might need help with food supplies.  Also, Urist McDwarf, please rethink your move.  Not only is that a drop in the bucket for a new settlement, but you would have overlapping gathering with your own town.  CrazyAbe, he said cardinal directions, no diagonals except scout vision, and you need to allocate laborers to build it and probably soldiers to protect them.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 08:50:58 pm by Omeganaut »
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2015, 09:49:50 pm »

So it looks like Humans are geared to build a lot, probably with fewer settlements, as well as scout.  Halflings on the other hand are geared to build a lot of settlements and supply food.  Dwarves are underground and defensive, while Elves love forests and can boom with good placement.  It seems Humans may want to focus on infrastructure, Elves on scouting for more forest, Dwarves on tunneling and Halflings on more settlements perhaps?For new settlements, elves and dwarves should go build more outwards, and humans and halflings closer to Mt. Olympus at it appears right now.
I think we might be better off if the dwarves try to focus on the Underdark instead of expanding overland. They get such nice bonuses there (and I don't want to deal with a two front war overland and underground) Or maybe that doesn't work, depending on how Underdark access works. Curses.

I do agree that the humans and halflings should aim their first expansions at linking everyone up.

I think that one of the humans should work at scaling the mountain, once they can spare a team of laborers for the task.

While the L-shape city placement is indeed optimal for using every square without doubling up, I don't think we don't need to be in any hurry to fill those up. Stables are fairly cheap, and will allow us to skip over a step in the city grid. We may want to build those before expanding anyway, as a stables' carry capacity bonus lowers the needed hauler trips from 750 to 250.
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Shoruke

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2015, 12:27:45 am »

All these hard questions!  :o


Do we start with any buildings in our towns?
How would a teleport network improve the adventurers city-visiting?
Can civs with advanced structures use them to help the others? (IE, the first player to get a research lab building teleporters at every capital).
If we have a network of supply lines, do we have instant trades with allies, and can we help each other with sudden crises as easily as we could our own towns?
Do we need a Shrine to Armok for our capital?

* Your town starts with a Shrine to Armok and 250 housing, plus the Town upgrade.
* Since the adventurers are basically going to be teleporting to their mission sites, it won't help with that... but it would make commercial goods more widely available. For instance, you don't need the whole group to go to a small town with adamantine and nothing else of note if it's linked with another city. (that's true of supply lines too, but teleporters don't require troops or food exependiture)
* I'll make a new rule that you can send labourers to another civ and build stuff for them, but the locals can't help if they're of a different race. And you still can't break the One Project Per Location At A Time limit. (any other way of doing this would give the GM a huge headache)
* Yes, you can trade resources to other players freely using supply lines.
* As said above, you all already have a Shrine to Armok. You'll only need to build a new one if you are in a situation where your wealth is stored in two places (a second Town for instance)


Things to clarify before I make a move: First off, what's the rules on trading food/wealth/resources?  Obviously right now we would need to send a party to carry everything, but once we have roads and vehicles and harbors and things how would that change? 

Addendum:  can we "borrow" population like laborers from other groups, or at least have them build something in our city with their speed and cost boosts? 

Can my gatherers carry stuff as well as gather new stuff while moving to a new settlement?

Also:  do we have to maintain population levels for towns and cities? 

And what about population growth?


* Roads/Harbours/etc. won't facilitate trade between players per say, they'll just make it easier for you to send groups of people with supplies. Supply lines, on the other hand, allow instantaneous trading. (obviously I'm not going to let other players decide they're taking your stuff against your will, you'll all need to mediate your own trade agreements)
* (see above) I'll make a new rule that you can send labourers to someone else's town and build stuff for them, but the local labourers can't contribute CP if they're of a different race.
* Yes, Gatherers can gather while moving, but only the "not stationed at a settlement" amount, and only from the tile they're in, not the adjacent ones.
* Good point. I'll add a rule about maintaining Town and City status. (obviously if you move some pop out and then back in later, it goes right back to being a Town, you won't need to redo the costly Town Upgrade)
* ...What about population growth? If I understand the question, no, you don't need to maintain a certain rate of pop growth. If you want to horde your wealth for Lucky Chance, go for it.




As an aside, I don't know how many of you have read much about the Underdark, but it's much more constricted than aboveground. Everything is either tunnels, or solid rock. You know how the underground caverns work in Dwarf Fortress? Imagine if all the caverns were about a fifth as wide, and the monsters were more aggressive, and there were Always-Hostile Underground Super Elves, and a bunch of the random monsters like Troglodytes and Batmans have formed cultures, and none of the Forgotten Beasts are made of something stupid and flimsy like powder snow or water. (luckily, none of them give off clouds of Screw Your Fort every couple seconds, either)


being a nice player, I'd rather hash out early than rules lawyer later.
Good attitude.
Ideally the system would just be perfectly clear from the get-go, but... well, I couldn't think of another game system that really emulates what I needed this civ game to do. It's not like Settlers of Catan has allowance for a bunch of adventurers occasionally taking things over. So I basically threw it together by myself. In Notepad++. It'd be completely unrealistic to assume I'd make something perfect in those circumstances, so... gotta keep ironing out them kinks.


I'll make all of the following changes to the OP as well.

Rules Edit/clarification:
Gatherers will harvest from the four adjacent tiles while housed in a settlement. Gatherers that are stationed in the wilderness, or who exceed their location's housing limit, gather only from the tile they're stationed in, at the "not stationed in a settlement" rate.

Rules Edit/Clarification:
Each 1,000 wealth takes up the same space as 1 Food or Materials, in terms of population's carrying capacity.

New Rule:
Towns must maintain a population of 150 to continue producing wealth. Cities must maintain a population of 450, or are considered Towns for wealth production. If a location falls below these thresholds, the benefits are regained immediately when the population increases again (i.e. you don't need to repurchase the Town Upgrade).

New Rule:
If a location's pop exceeds its housing, the excess are considered stationed there, but are not considered part of the town's pop, and don't receive the benefits of being in a town. The player will need to decide what distribution of labour to put in the housing. Gatherers gather a reduced amount and only from the tile they're in, and crafters cannot produce wealth. Labourers may still contribute to construction efforts. Pop exceeding a locations housing limit cannot benefit from City Defenses, and attacks against them will be a Raid.


New rule:
Pop stationed in another player's city behave slightly differently than usual. Gatherers will add resources to their own inventory before the city's, but can gather from adjacent tiles as if they were in their own city (assuming there is sufficient housing for them). Construction projects can only be worked on by labourers of the race that started the project (for example, Dwarves can build an Underground Access in a Human Town for them, but the Human labourers cannot help with the construction).

New rule:
When more than one player's Soldiers are involved in a battle, each soldier uses the CR Per Soldier of their home civilization (but can benefit from another player's structure bonuses while abroad).
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:30:16 am by shoruke »
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2015, 11:41:44 am »

Are BluarianKnight and I in?
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Shoruke

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2015, 11:48:37 am »

Are BluarianKnight and I in?
Yes.

...WHOA, I totally didn't add Bluar's application to the applications when I thought I did  :o
Glad we caught that before the second (first?) turn came around. My apologies.

In other news, today marks the very first day I ever hit the 40,000 character limit in a Bay12 post.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 11:56:23 am by shoruke »
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BluarianKnight

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2015, 12:52:28 pm »

Are BluarianKnight and I in?
Yes.

...WHOA, I totally didn't add Bluar's application to the applications when I thought I did  :o
Glad we caught that before the second (first?) turn came around. My apologies.

In other news, today marks the very first day I ever hit the 40,000 character limit in a Bay12 post.
Thank you for clarifying..l
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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2015, 12:58:54 pm »

PTW
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2015, 04:35:34 pm »

GM questions: Can I have a group leave a city and convert empty land into supply lines in a single turn, and then have the lines transporting materials in the next turn?
Can I add another 20 soldiers to the closest point of a supply line, and have each other soldier group else shift back one to turn a new road into a supply line, without interrupting it?
Does building a settlement on a road make it any easier to build?


I ran some numbers for civilian growth.

5 houses cost 500 materials and 50 laborer/turns (33.34 for humans, 25 for the first 200 in a halfling town).

Human starting towns produce 6 materials per gatherer. That's 84 gatherers + 34 laborers = 118 people to build 5 houses a turn.
Humans on full mountains produce 12 materials per gatherer. 42 + 34 = 76 people to build 5 houses a turn.
Humans on full mountains with a temple produce 13.2 materials per gatherer. 38 + 34 = 72 people to build 5 houses a turn.
Halflings settlements/small towns on full mountains have 42 + 25 = 67 people to build 5 houses a turn.
Proper dwarven cities produce 15 materials per gatherer. 34 + 50 = 84 people to build 5 houses a turn.
Proper elven cities produce 10 materials per gatherer. 50 + 50 = 100 people to build 5 houses a turn.

Massing crafters and sending gatherers to an unsettled moutain camp doesn't seem worth it (yet). Rough calculations placed it at me getting 2000 materials by turn 10 that way, with 5000 by turn 10 for massing gatherers in my city. (On the other hand, filling up on crafters to get tons of soldiers to capture ruins through human wave tactics might just be the most efficient way to grow. 200 crafters in a town of 250 would give +50 soldiers per turn).

75 crafters in a town of 250 (the capital, once full) provide 18,750 per turn. A relatively small group of crafters is enough for civilian growth, but we will likely want more than the minimum, for soldiers.

I'm not sure if food is a serious concern even for dwarves. One house-building block of 84 people will provide 52 extra food.

We *can* shove all the laborers in a shantytown outside the city limits while they build houses just for gatherers. It would even give dwarves amazing growth rates (Just over 5 turns to double the gatherer population, if they have enough laborers and wealth). But that leaves the GM a free hand to give terrible events, and I really don't think anyone should try it.


I think I'll rush for +5 houses/turn, a stables, and then at getting a full mountain settlement (Hopefully in that little mountain outcropping between the humans and halflings). Once I have that built, and +10 houses/turn, I'll use the leftover resources to start on supply lines towards the halflings, and then the dwarves.

I'd be willing to grab a thieves guild instead, but I'd like to get us connected as soon as possible, and I'm in a better position for connecting towards the dwarves than the other human group is.


Edit: I notice that the poll is set to expire. IIRC, once a poll expires on this forum software, it can never be touched again.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 04:38:08 pm by Nirur Torir »
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My Name is Immaterial

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2015, 04:39:19 pm »

We don't need the class specific buildings for at least a week or two, so don't worry about rushing them.

Shoruke

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2015, 05:01:35 pm »

GM questions: Can I have a group leave a city and convert empty land into supply lines in a single turn, and then have the lines transporting materials in the next turn?
Can I add another 20 soldiers to the closest point of a supply line, and have each other soldier group else shift back one to turn a new road into a supply line, without interrupting it?
Does building a settlement on a road make it any easier to build?

Edit: I notice that the poll is set to expire. IIRC, once a poll expires on this forum software, it can never be touched again.

Yes, if you can build roads in a single turn, they can be supply lines starting the turn they are finished.

Yes, as long as you have enough total soldiers stationed on a road, it's a supply line. You don't need to have 20 soldiers on each tile, you need to have at least 20 Soldiers x number of road tiles, combined total, stationed on the road.

No, putting a settlement on a road doesn't make it easier to build.

Wait, what? Polls can't EVER be touched again once they expire? Not even by the Original Poster? Damn, I just wanted the voting to stop temporarily when I'm working on the turn update tomorrow...
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Nirur Torir

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2015, 06:34:48 pm »

Tntey, you might want to sacrifice for 10 laborers, since you only have 40, and housing projects cost 50.
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Shoruke

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Re: Gods War: D&D 5e and OOC thread
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2015, 12:55:52 pm »

For the turn that's going up today, I'll have the scouting happen instantaneously, and the scouting units return to base instantaneously too. Henceforth...

New Rule:
Scouting units must spend a turn stationed at a location to survey the area or scout a location. The information they've gathered will be revealed when they have returned to a location owned by their player.

Scouting teams can be dispatched again the same turn they return home, but will not recover their spent movement (if they return from a site 3 spaces away, they will only be able to move 2 more spaces this turn)

Rules Clarification:
The chances of an ambush happening are not listed in the rules for two reasons: You don't know what the chances are, and it varies by location anyway.
20 CR is enough to guarantee safety in the "inner ring" area your starting towns are in, 50 CR should be enough outside of that if you aren't dangerously close to an enemy town, any place that is specifically more dangerous may require as much as 150 CR to guarantee safety from ambushes.


I'm hoping the rate of posting picks up a bit now that the game is getting into the swing of things. I really don't want to have to kick inactive civ players.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 02:37:04 pm by shoruke »
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