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[revier]

I like to look up the various deities and rulers of the civs in my worlds before picking one to go with, and I came across this guy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's never been cursed, so he's not a vampire or anything - the fact that he became obsessed with his own mortality seems to support that. All of the dwarves he killed appear to be ordinary in every way, and are members of the same civ he belongs to. Those first two murders happened when he was twelve.

I haven't played anything in this world yet, so it's not a result of Fortress or Adventure mode shenanigans. I really like this civ, so this guy will be my king at least temporarily - should I be worried about this? Also, any suggestions for a suitable throne room? It's kind of nice to have a king who isn't a vampire, a goblin, or a lifelong cheesemaker with no interesting accomplishments.

[FortunaDraken]

>Obsessed with mortality

Bro, your king's a necromancer. Do it and get him in your fort, and make excellence happen.

[revier]

No, he's not a necromancer yet, or he wouldn't still be the king. And he wasn't even thinking about being a necromancer when he was 12, either, so that's not it, unless I've grossly misunderstood how necromancy works.

[edit] the wiki says:

"Necromancers initially begin as normal historical figures who are mortal, can speak and can learn and are also part of an entity. In unmodded games these are dwarves, humans, olm men, serpent men, ant men, rodent men, reptile men, bat men, cave fish men and cave swallow men. At one point in its life, one of these creatures may suddenly become "obsessed with his/her/its own mortality" and seek to become immortal. Shortly afterwards, it will begin (if it does not do so already) worshiping a deity (or a creature with the [SUPERNATURAL] tag) who has a DEATH sphere. Once the deity/supernatural creature becomes an object of ardent worship to the figure, it will award the worshiper with an artifact slab containing the secrets of life and death. The worshiper will then claim the slab and learn its secrets, thus becoming a necromancer."

As you can see, he's not an ardent worshiper of anything - not a necromancer, just heading down that path.

[Edmus]

Yeah, immortality is a life goal, not everyone meets it. If you check the history of your civs the dead regents fairly often have (obviously) unmet immortality goals.
This is really neat. I wonder what his ethics are to murder?
You must become mountain home, for SCIENCE!

[Camulus]

Two theories:
1-His father, Roughnessshanks, was a hardened criminal who led his son into a life of crime.
The king then married Fenceskin, who supported his sadistic tendencies.

2-Who are the Immorality of Mucks?
That name seems somewhat goblinnish to me, though no reference of him being kidnapped or installed as regent by greenskins exists.
(Even then, the killings started at 12, so unsure how this would fit together.)

[revier]

His father was a fishery worker for ten years, gave it up to be a blacksmith, and then 25 years later began wandering the Crazed Hills, where he looks to have been a minor terror to the local wildlife right up until he got eaten by a giant lion.

His mother, though, is more interesting

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Poking around a bit more:
In the year 192, the Immorality of Mucks was a goblin group that took over governing the fortress Lancedtrumpet after my civ lost a war. If I look up the history of the fortress it is full of dwarves and goblins murdering one another starting shortly afterwards.

That pretty much explains the murdering thing: he thinks he's a goblin. What it doesn't explain is how a dwarf who is a member of a goblin group, with goblin ethics, ended up king of a dwarven civilization without being installed as a regent... 

I'm going to spend a little more time in Legends mode seeing if I can track down exactly what happened, and how widespread it is. Anybody know what happens with dwarves who have goblin ethics in fortress mode - will they just casually kill one another in play? Of course I'm starting a fortress in this world.

[FortunaDraken]

Shellsrims sounds like a Fun place to live. Everyone is murdering everyone else.

Also the fact that he is The Respectful Sport is far more amusing than it has any right to be.

[Edmus]

Hmm...
Maybe he kept his position in the line of succession and was pulled out from under the goblin overlords?
Does being conquered render you a subject of the conquering civ?

[revier]

Shellsrims sounds like a Fun place to live. Everyone is murdering everyone else.

Both Shellsrims (a fortress) and Lancedtrumpet (my civ's original mountainhome), are listed as belonging to The Dungeon of Blocks, a goblin civ that's been at war with mine on and off for the last 950 years or so, their site histories are page after page of people getting murdered.

Interestingly, the Fortress of Storms isn't an extinct civ, we have several fortresses and a bunch of hillocks that haven't been taken over by goblins. The site my king is living at has been under goblin administration since the year 147. You'd think the goblins might discourage that.

Hmm...
Maybe he kept his position in the line of succession and was pulled out from under the goblin overlords?
Does being conquered render you a subject of the conquering civ?

He didn't inherit - he's listed as the beginning of a new line. Seems like being conquered must not change your civ affiliation, even after generations - the guy is just a goblin raised dwarf that for some reason decided he's the king of a dwarven empire now, and everyone is just going with it.

[Edmus]

So maybe its a bug with how it decides new lines?
He's listed as a former member of one gobbo group, but not the other, which is which?

[Camulus]

His father was a fishery worker for ten years, gave it up to be a blacksmith, and then 25 years later began wandering the Crazed Hills, where he looks to have been a minor terror to the local wildlife right up until he got eaten by a giant lion.

His mother, though, is more interesting

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Poking around a bit more:
In the year 192, the Immorality of Mucks was a goblin group that took over governing the fortress Lancedtrumpet after my civ lost a war. If I look up the history of the fortress it is full of dwarves and goblins murdering one another starting shortly afterwards.

That pretty much explains the murdering thing: he thinks he's a goblin. What it doesn't explain is how a dwarf who is a member of a goblin group, with goblin ethics, ended up king of a dwarven civilization without being installed as a regent... 

Ah, so they were a goblin group.
This is a very interesting find, it seems that goblin ethics(if not all?) are hereditary....?
Seeing as his mother was also a murderer, but he, not having a goblin name, was not raised under goblin rule( Imight be confusing myself)

So is it theoretically possible for a dwarve to practice cannibalism after elfin involvements?


EDIT: Hmmm.......his mother is not related to the immorality of mucks, yet he is a member?
As there is no record of him being kidnapped, this whole thing baffles me.

Wait... his mother belonged to the dread of shimmering, probably another gobbo group.
Ah, the king is a former member of the dread of shimmering.(Ah edmus already deduced thusly)

My final estimate would be that many(perhaps all?) dwarven groups are under goblin influence then, he simply moved from one to another with the ethics intact.

So the fortress of storms may be a whole civ that has no qualm with murdering their kin.
Now you have to test if these qualities are recurrent in fortress mode, may also be interesting if you post the save.

[revier]

Ah, so they were a goblin group.
This is a very interesting find, it seems that goblin ethics(if not all?) are hereditary....?
Seeing as his mother was also a murderer, but he, not having a goblin name, was not raised under goblin rule( Imight be confusing myself)

So is it theoretically possible for a dwarve to practice cannibalism after elfin involvements?

EDIT: Hmmm.......his mother is not related to the immorality of mucks, yet he is a member?
As there is no record of him being kidnapped, this whole thing baffles me.

Wait... his mother belonged to the dread of shimmering, probably another gobbo group.
Ah, the king is a former member of the dread of shimmering.(Ah edmus already deduced thusly)

My final estimate would be that many(perhaps all?) dwarven groups are under goblin influence then, he simply moved from one to another with the ethics intact.

So the fortress of storms may be a whole civ that has no qualm with murdering their kin.
Now you have to test if these qualities are recurrent in fortress mode, may also be interesting if you post the save.

The Immorality of Mucks are the goblin group running the fortress Lancedtrumpet, and the Dread of Shimmering run Shellsrims, which they also took over. The Fortress of Storms do seem to have sites with no goblin involvement, which is why their king choosing to live under occupation seems weird.

Here's a copy of the save from before I embarked: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11244

[TheFlame52]

The king and nobles always live in the capitol, even if said capitol is conquered, destroyed, or filled with forgotten beasts. I don't know why. Sound like something to ask Toady.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The king and nobles always live in the capitol, even if said capitol is conquered, destroyed, or filled with forgotten beasts. I don't know why. Sound like something to ask Toady.

Ah, that would explain why the queen of my 19 dwarf civ is living in the ruins of their first fortress. Taken over by Ferric Elves (FD mod) in the year 20 and destroyed in the year 105 by a towering scaly elephant (regular titan). It's now 250.
The queen apparently lived for 60 years as a simple non-historical fisherdwarf then, thanks to me, she suddenly found herself all alone, deep underground in a pile of troglodyte bone amulets ('til my adventurer turned up).
The rest of the Dwarves are happily living out their civilization's twilight days in their forest retreat.

[Staalo]

He didn't inherit - he's listed as the beginning of a new line. Seems like being conquered must not change your civ affiliation, even after generations - the guy is just a goblin raised dwarf that for some reason decided he's the king of a dwarven empire now, and everyone is just going with it.

I was puzzling over this in one of my worlds when I noticed that several migrants were coming from goblin settlements. It seems that when a site is conquered its surviving citizens start getting slowly assimilated by the conquering culture. It looks like a very slow process; at some point the original dwarves' descendants started giving their children goblin names and I presume were following goblin cultural values as well.

That cultural assimilation seems to be a sliding scale of sorts, and a creature can be a member of several civilizations at once. Legends Viewer for instance shows this as a percentage for each civilization. I suspect that as long there is at least some attachment for a culture a person can decide to migrate to a settlement belonging to that culture, and become a noble as well.

Sadly that fort didn't last very long; it would have been interesting to see whether those migrants would have followed goblin cultural values (like... murder?) while living in my fortress.