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Author Topic: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges  (Read 3588 times)

Cthulhu

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Re: Text-based Sword Dudes Game -- Trawling for inspiration
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 10:40:05 am »

I have seen skallagrim, one of his videos turned me on to kengo which inspired the eventual career mode ideas
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DoomOnion

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Re: Text-based Sword Dudes Game -- Trawling for inspiration
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 10:42:39 am »

Having some experience with swordsmanship definitely helps too. Check our your local (European/Historical) fencing community as well. Some experience with longswords tend to make people a little less biased towards video game swordsmanship logic.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Text-based Sword Dudes Game -- Trawling for inspiration
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2015, 11:23:59 am »

Probably.  Not sure what there actually is around here, I know there's a fencing club nearby but I haven't really looked into it. but if it gets there I'll look into it.  Posting an update to the OP with a basic runthrough of the game flow in a little bit, hopefully it'll give more clarity to exactly what I'm planning.  It's not gonna be anything mega-complicated or historically accurate.

I am passingly familiar with genuine fencing.  Don't expect spinnyshenanigans or movie style attacks or anything.  Mordhau and pommel-striking might come later if I implement armor but for simplicity's sake we'll assume things are always unarmored for now, so those kinds of tactics won't necessarily be useful.  Some stances will be abstracted out, like you can assume a longswordsman changes his stance, half-swords, and similar things when appropriate without an impact on the actual rules.  Likewise with dual-wielding, for simplicity's sake we'll stick with single-wielding, hand-and-half swords (Both european longsword and katanas, maybe two different nations in the game world when it comes to that).

Later on we can expand to more modern small-sword fencing, iaijutsu, knife-fighting, and maybe non-sword weapons but I wouldn't count on that one.  Expanded gameplay would also include special match types for various styles.  Non-lethal stick combat or fencing with a point system to determine victory, first-blood matches, pure iaijutsu, etc.  And maybe some Historical MMA where different styles test each other. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 01:21:31 pm by Cthulhu »
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Cthulhu

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2015, 06:40:47 pm »

Updated the OP with a description of the current rules.
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SeriousConcentrate

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2015, 06:46:15 pm »

This could be relevant to my interests. PTW.
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Zireael

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2015, 04:13:27 am »

Watching, too.
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Cthulhu

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2015, 11:46:02 am »

Something I'm starting to wonder about is targeting and the grid. 

The issue I'm looking at right now is I"m no longer sure if the grid adds anything interesting to gameplay.  Is there any reason not to just swing for the head every time, since it's the most likely to disable the opponent?
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Cthulhu

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2015, 12:02:03 pm »

The rules don't currently include that option.  I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier overall to get rid of that element altogether and just use a simpler system with random targeting and an option to go for a specific part.  I'm a staunch believer in faux-simulation, the question being "does a complex simulation add anything to this that an abstraction doesn't?"

Right now I"m not sure that simulation does.
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Emma

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2015, 03:05:56 pm »

So to fix your problem with swinging at the head, just make it so that it creates an opening that you can be easily attacked through this itself leads on to more complicated tactics like feinting.
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Cthulhu

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2015, 12:02:59 am »

Maybe, though I'd have to figure out exactly how that'd work.  Maybe explaining the core ideas I'm trying to bring out in the game would make my position more clear, as well as trying to explain the way hitting somebody works.  Right now the rules description is very granular and compartmentalized so it might be hard to see it as a coherent whole.

The basic idea right now is sort of similar to Flash Duel, a game made by the same guy who made the totally rad Yomi which I think is on steam now.  In that game you have a linear map like the one we have (look at the mockup UI for a visual depiction of what I mean, characters are placed on a line of dots and move back and forth across it) and you draw a hand of numbered cards and move by playing them.  If you move onto an enemy's space then he has to either block by matching your cards or retreat by playing different cards. If you can't retreat and you can't block then you lose.  The goal is to maneuver for position until you can make an attack the enemy has no response to.

This is more complicated of course but I tried to replicate the idea of space as a sort of currency.  Let me try to explain it.

The various you can take in the game, offensively and defensively, are based on a spectrum of risk.  At the top you've got some very risky moves like the "Karmic strike," swinging at the same moment your opponent does and betting your life that you're quicker on the draw.  On the other side of things space as currency comes into play.  Most dangerous situations can be avoided with very little danger by retreating.  By retreating you're effectively "spending" space in exchange for safety.  Of course if all you do is retreat then you'll eventually be pushed out of the arena and disqualified (Or in some matches pushed against the wall and mercilessly killed).  You have to balance risk and safety; the cost of retreat is only worthwhile if you can leverage it into an advantage.  For example, if you think you'll win the next initiative you could retreat from an opponent's attack and bank on being able to lunge and strike back before he can bear down on you again.  Then he has to decide if he wants to give up space for safety (thus negating his winnings from the last exchange) or take a risk and try to drive his advantage home.

This is the core game flow as I'm currently envisioning it.  I'm wondering right now if the grid actually serves this vision.

So the way the grid works is you basically draw a line across it and that determines where you strike.  If the opponent wants to parry then he draws a line that intersects yours; if he wants to karmic strike he draws one that doesn't intersect.  As it stands currently there's no missing attacks; either the enemy actively negates your attack by parrying, dodging, or killing you, or it hits.  Instead of a miss chance the enemy tests his resilience attribute to roll with the blow and reduce it to a minor wound which basically does nothing aside from some token bleeding, though it does count in a first-blood match.

So since the head is the weakest point and there's no missing, there's no reason not to just swing for the head every time.  So now I'm trying to figure out how to fix that and one of the higher points on my list is to just remove the grid entirely and figure out a new means of doing it.  It's fun and it gives the game a sort of tactile feel like you're really swinging the sword, but I dunno if it's worth it.  It may influence your vote if I mentioned that as it currently stands the enemy's position isn't simulated.  It's not like you can take an opportunity to slice B1-B3 when you see the enemy raise his sword for an A2-C2 chop; that would just be a karmic strike and probably the riskiest attack in the game.



Quick shot in the dark alternative.  Borrowing again from Sirlin, this time Yomi with its rock-paper-scissors gameplay flow, what about a collection of various stances that themselves open up different options.  Stance A might allow for attacks A, B, and C, and parries X, Y, and Z.  So each player selects a stance and that dictates what moves they can make, then they pick a move and the game compares the choices they made to determine what happens.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 01:38:13 am by Cthulhu »
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Arcvasti

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2015, 12:28:16 am »

PTW
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sambojin

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2015, 05:31:29 am »

Hmmm
An "actual swordfighting" game, based on "cards" and a "battle-board".
I haven't got too many pieces of advice for you. Does make it fun or intriguing count?
.
There's absolutely no reason to tell you about the finer points of a blade, or the person wielding it, or the situation they're in.

Still, ptw.
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sambojin

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2015, 05:38:59 am »

Chuck "Big Knife" in as a pretty damn good sword though.

Cheers.
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Mephansteras

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2015, 11:01:59 am »

Something I'm starting to wonder about is targeting and the grid. 

The issue I'm looking at right now is I"m no longer sure if the grid adds anything interesting to gameplay.  Is there any reason not to just swing for the head every time, since it's the most likely to disable the opponent?

Well, in actual sword fighting the answer to that is "If you go for the same spot every time it is really easy for your opponent to predict what you're going to do and block/counter/dodge you".


Also, you may find this site very handy for some reference works and leads to other actual period manuals and instructions of sword fighting.
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Cthulhu

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Re: En Garde! ASCII Swordfighting Game -- Heating up the Forges
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2015, 02:20:01 pm »

Hmmm
An "actual swordfighting" game, based on "cards" and a "battle-board".
I haven't got too many pieces of advice for you. Does make it fun or intriguing count?
.
There's absolutely no reason to tell you about the finer points of a blade, or the person wielding it, or the situation they're in.

Still, ptw.

There were never cards in this, I don't think you understood what I posted.  Nor did this ever purport to be a hyperrealistic swordfighting game.

Attribute bonuses for striking the same spot in the row is good.  Would also encourage going for weaker points for the stat drops.  Hitting the legs reduces agility and initiative which would make it harder for them to fend off repeated strikes at the head or torso.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 02:34:46 pm by Cthulhu »
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