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Author Topic: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?  (Read 2073 times)

Melting Sky

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I've taken far to long a break from this game and I was thinking about getting back into it, but I'm a bit concerned about some problems I remember really bothered me in the early days of DF 2014.

Have the worst of the FPS and pathing problems gotten any better with all the patches?

Do fortresses experience proper sieges now? I remember when the new version came out that instead of the usual stream of powerful goblin sieges I was used to, I never got what I could call a single remotely decent battle. I realize now that since the attacks are drawn from the actual game world populations the sieges aren't ever going to be on the same level they once were, but do neighboring enemies ever send real sieges now?

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Splint

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2015, 11:01:48 pm »

The game runs sorta comparable to 34.11 when the map is kept clean of item contaminant, but you'll get a small hit to FPS periodically when the world updates. It's slightly slower, but that's to be expected with the new mechanics and whatnot.

Sieges are pretty hit or miss right now. Being the closest available target - meaning out of everyone, not just your civ - with some rapid wealth building seems to get some results for some people though, but not all.

I miss the old sieges too.

Melting Sky

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 12:12:29 am »

Thanks for the heads up. It's  a shame about the sieges, but I will probably take the latest version for a spin anyway.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 02:29:34 am »

The next version (still being worked on) has fixed a few bugs concerning sieges (a path finding one and several regarding goblin beak dog mounts, hopefully that affects other mounts as well).
I haven't played earlier DF versions, but I don't have much problem with getting sieges. Embarking close to a black tower typically results in two or three sieges, possibly (very) early ones before they somehow run out of steam, although the undead path finding is almost completely absent, so be prepared for campers for a season or a year. Splint's advice to ensure you're the closest target for the enemies is solid. Obviously, a healthy enemy civ to draw the siegers from is needed as well.
I've never seen a mount, but goblin sieges in the 50-100 head count range is not unusual in my fortresses. There are still issues with siegers in the form of them camping around killed/captured commanders, and they can still have problems pathing to your fortress.
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Daris

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 06:04:01 pm »

My fort routinely gets goblin sieges, but size varies widely, from 50+ goblins to ~5.
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Shadow Creator

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 01:46:11 am »

I have also been away for a while or have been playing Masterwork of 34. I hope you don't mind me asking here but what is new about 40?

My two main focuses on the game are building amazing RP style forts/cities and fighting off sieges. I really don't care about the 'legends' or that there are 1,000 types of bones/meat/wood (I like the diversity in trees/animals using a graphics pack just not the end product having to sort through a thousand different materials) and only care about the world around embark in the sense that I have every possible visitor. I love how creative you can get with fighting from straight up military to complex automatic drowning, casting, melting, etc traps all the way up to dwarfputing. That being said is the only new feature the multi tile trees? I am worried about all the posts here and on reddit about how sieges are either gone, lacking, or require world creation skills to get anything worthwhile which kills a major part of the game for me. Should I just stick with 34 until 40 wars get fleshed out a lot more? Am I missing anything new and awesome like how minecarts were added?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 01:49:50 am by Shadow Creator »
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Splint

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2015, 02:32:18 am »

I have also been away for a while or have been playing Masterwork of 34. I hope you don't mind me asking here but what is new about 40?

My two main focuses on the game are building amazing RP style forts/cities and fighting off sieges. I really don't care about the 'legends' or that there are 1,000 types of bones/meat/wood (I like the diversity in trees/animals using a graphics pack just not the end product having to sort through a thousand different materials) and only care about the world around embark in the sense that I have every possible visitor. I love how creative you can get with fighting from straight up military to complex automatic drowning, casting, melting, etc traps all the way up to dwarfputing. That being said is the only new feature the multi tile trees? I am worried about all the posts here and on reddit about how sieges are either gone, lacking, or require world creation skills to get anything worthwhile which kills a major part of the game for me. Should I just stick with 34 until 40 wars get fleshed out a lot more? Am I missing anything new and awesome like how minecarts were added?

Thanks!

Well, there's world activation of course. Wars can and will likely be declared without you even lifting a finger.

Trees provide far more wood, fruits and new crops add greater variety to what's available to seel/ea/drink (Hell, there's a damn fort in the community games section based around selling all the new additions they can forage/grow.)

Units can climb and sprint now. Makes basing a fort's entrance around a big, open, ramp-based shaft kind of an ill-advised thing to do.

Morale based on personality, discipline, and possibly number of allies (dwarves are now more prone to trying to kill wildlife with their bare hands than run away from it,) a lite version of discipline (Discipline determines willingness to fight in the face of horrible odds or ghastly deaths,) and pulping.

Unfortunately, undead got a needlessly massive buff thansk to not exerting themselves and come properly equipped now in necro seiges, though they can be perma-killed with mangling/pulping (provided the pulped bit isn't severed.)

While the combat is much more satisfying to observe, with dialogue and vivid descriptions such as heads being smashed into upper bodies, limbs splitting into gore, and parts exploding somehow when struck, the lack of good sieges leads me to believe you may wanna stick to 34 for the time being, as sieges are supposedly due to be fixed next release.

Camulus

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2015, 02:43:40 am »

One addition that you may find interesting in terms of general fort layout is the addition of priorities to designations as well as jobs.

This has made it easier to dig out a large area in segments, give priority to the engraving of one room vs another, enabled a lever to be pulled as soon as possible and so on and so forth.

The lessened sieges are a drawback, but the other additions are adequate in scope if one is also entertained by the day by day expansion and megaproject spheres.
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Shadow Creator

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 06:12:50 pm »

Thanks for the responses. The ability to prioritize jobs sounds absolutely amazing. Is there a cap on a unit's ability to climb? Can they climb only straight up/down and do so indefinitely? If you have say a tower of fortifications with a roof is that 'climb proof'? Can climbers get past overhangs? One last question, do the new trees cause a lot of issues? I saw a couple forum posts about them spreading like rabbits and causing FPS issues.

Depending on the level of climbing I could see a lot of interesting new traps not to mention trap redesigns.
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Splint

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 06:36:03 pm »

Thanks for the responses. The ability to prioritize jobs sounds absolutely amazing. Is there a cap on a unit's ability to climb? Can they climb only straight up/down and do so indefinitely? If you have say a tower of fortifications with a roof is that 'climb proof'? Can climbers get past overhangs? One last question, do the new trees cause a lot of issues? I saw a couple forum posts about them spreading like rabbits and causing FPS issues.

Depending on the level of climbing I could see a lot of interesting new traps not to mention trap redesigns.


Far as I know they can hang there indefinitely, but usually don't without some climber skill. Units are especially prone to this if there's lots of traffic in a given place; they'll risk falling to their death down a waterfall over sharing a square for an instant or if it seems like a faster path. Their ability is entirely on their climber skill with most things lack and have to learn from scratch, generally resulting in plummeting down whatever they're climbing on. Like a central shaft in a ramp-based entrance, leading to a horrifically Fun wave of unintended suicides.

Overhangs stop climbers, as do smooth walls.

With trees it's mainly because of item-contaminants in the form of fruit and leaves falling around their bases, which can be cleaned up with spotclean or clean map items on DFhack, or cleared up partially by fruit pickers.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 02:41:01 am »

A single tile of FLOOR overhang stops climbers, but they're able to climb past a single tile of WALL/FORTIFICATION overhang. Since a floor jutting out looks silly, I build a floor and a wall outside of that, resulting in a net jutting out of 2 tiles.

The overhang should be at least two tiles above the ground, or climbers can reach/jump up to climb.

Fliers don't need to climb, of course, but mounts don't exist for practical purposes currently (the next version has fixes to at least beak dogs, hopefully that would also help with flying ones).

Treesplosions are indeed a major issue. I tend to embark in areas devoid of trees save for a single embark tile (desert or ocean for the treeless part, usually). Trees seem to grow at a fixed rate (possibly with different rates for different biomes), but with nothing to stop their growth due to density, so you can get caverns that gets parts severed from access due to trees gumming up the passages, and regardless of the tree density on embark, the area gets junglified over time if you don't actively keep trees in check. Trees can be fought by flooring, paved roads, constant logging (provided you don't have a logging agreement with the elves), or by placing no item stockpiles on the ground (weird effect when those stockpiles are removed, however, with instant tree maturation). Trees cannot mature if there isn't at least two z levels of head room, but drawbridges do not count: trees grow through drawbridges. Lots of trees also has a severe FPS impact.
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Shadow Creator

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 02:53:35 pm »

Thanks for all the answers guys, I really appreciate it. I think I will stick with 34 for a while longer at this point.
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Chief10

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 07:23:33 pm »

I have also been away for a while or have been playing Masterwork of 34. I hope you don't mind me asking here but what is new about 40?

My two main focuses on the game are building amazing RP style forts/cities and fighting off sieges. I really don't care about the 'legends' or that there are 1,000 types of bones/meat/wood (I like the diversity in trees/animals using a graphics pack just not the end product having to sort through a thousand different materials) and only care about the world around embark in the sense that I have every possible visitor. I love how creative you can get with fighting from straight up military to complex automatic drowning, casting, melting, etc traps all the way up to dwarfputing. That being said is the only new feature the multi tile trees? I am worried about all the posts here and on reddit about how sieges are either gone, lacking, or require world creation skills to get anything worthwhile which kills a major part of the game for me. Should I just stick with 34 until 40 wars get fleshed out a lot more? Am I missing anything new and awesome like how minecarts were added?

Thanks!

I would definitely recommend playing v34, it's what I'm playing until the new version is released.

As for climbing in v40, one thing I find annoying is that enemies won't automatically path into your fort via climbing. They have to see one of your citizens/pets before this behavior is activated.
So you could have 100 goblins outside your fort, with your dwarves perfectly safe behind your walls. This can last a season with no change. Suddenly, a cat (ignoring your burrows) peeps its head above the fortifications, and the entire gobbo siege will instantly start scaling your walls.
To me, if the goblins are sending sieges to your fort in the first place, don't they "know" your citizens are behind the walls without having to see them?
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Sanctume

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 01:41:57 pm »

Stress management also comes into play when disposing lots of sentient corpses and corpse body parts. 
Those citizens with Can Handle Stress that aren't in the military becomes useful for clean up.

jaked122

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Re: Been away from DF for a while. How well does 2014 run these days?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2015, 11:58:47 am »

It runs alright, but you'll want DFhack installed so that you can use the clean map commands to prevent FPS death.
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