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[Foxite]

Currently for me it is not that hard for me to build a fort, but it takes long. And it's surprisingly easy for me to lose it.

This makes me think that all of that solid organization, dedicating only a few dwarves to a particular task, and planning ahead, which other people's successful forts all have and mine don't, is far more important than I thought. I don't ever spend time designing efficient stockpile-workshop layouts, and basically any other part of my fort is usually kept the way I find it the easiest, which is not very efficient. So I would like to learn about what other people find the most efficient.

Also nice would be if you could take a look at my fort, and say what you would do different.

[Deboche]

This fort is a bit more advanced than mine usually get.

I don't bother so much with a huge and complex wall, just wall off a little area and put up a bridge.

Other than that, I'd recommend making better use of stairs. I usually have 1 z-level underground for entrance filled with traps, on the z-level below come farms and kitchens, then stockpiles, then workshops, then rooms, then meeting hall, then whatever else. That way, dwarves only need to travel a little bit on the same z-level and quickly get to wherever they want. It makes things way faster.

Also, when I have the patience for it, I make a stair from the workshop to the stockpile directly above or below it. But making the floor around the workshop a stockpile also works very well, just looks less organized.

[Foxite]

I'd recommend making better use of stairs. I usually have 1 z-level underground for entrance filled with traps, on the z-level below come farms and kitchens, then stockpiles, then workshops, then rooms, then meeting hall, then whatever else. That way, dwarves only need to travel a little bit on the same z-level and quickly get to wherever they want. It makes things way faster.

Yes. Those 5 z-levels of nothing are there so that I have room for engineering late-game. But since the only use for that space I've ever really found so far is a control room, I guess I could do with only 1, if not 0 extra levels.

Thanks, I will try that with my next fort.

[FortunaDraken]

Yeah I tend to use a similar kind of set-up, only my first floor is usually trade stockpiles and military, then farms, workshops and their associated stockpiles (I tend to keep a large stockpile with whatever the workshop needs nearby it so my dwarves aren't running around everywhere), then rooms and dining hall. I also tend to make sure the central fort stairs aren't the same stairs that go deep down, making an alternative set off the crafting level that dodges the main rooms.

[vanatteveldt]

Could you post some screenshots? I often browse the forum from work, and have no DF there...

[Foxite]

Could you post some screenshots? I often browse the forum from work, and have no DF there...

Here.

[vanatteveldt]

Thanks. Some quick remarks:

If you care about efficient fortress design, it's all about minimizing time spent walking and hauling, especially by your highly skilled dwarves. (I'm ignoring defensibility here, this is best taken care of at the entry points, but I guess good compartmentalization can save your dwarven behind when things go really wrong. )

Since carrying a heavy rock up 1 flight of stairs takes a dwarf as much time as carrying it one tile accross, z-levels are the key to efficiency. I normally place related industries in a room with some stairs leading down to the raw good stockpile and up to the finished good stockpile(s). That way, the artisans generally only have to haul <10 tiles (from pile to stair and from stair to workshop). You can e.g. have 1 tile space between workshops and have a staircase at every interception like so:

Code: [Select]

workshop level (z=0)     storage levels (z=-1, z=+1)
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
...X...X...    ===X===X===
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
...X...X...    ===X===X===
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========
WWW.WWW.WWW    ===========

Of course, you can make this as small or large as you want. I cluster workshops with the same material together (e.g. ason, craftdwarf, mechanic) or if input of one is output of the other (forge+smelter, loom+clothier). You can also do a five story layout (ore > smelter > bars > forge > weapons) but that's too much fuss to me, and doesn't work for magma forges anyway.


Same goes for bedrooms. If you spread them accross z levels total travel time is much shorter. In theory you could make sure masons live near the masonry shop etc, but that's too much work for my taste. See 'dwarven apartments' for a good design.

It is also a good idea to spread little booze stockpiles around and place some nice statues or furniture around them. Dwarves never consume drink in the dining hall, so you might as well minimize travel time and maximize good thoughts.

In terms of labor management, I usually have a large pool of "peasants" doing all labour without quality levels (hauling, processing/milling, smelting, architecture, brewing etc.). Skilled dwarves only do one thing plus hauling, and experts (especially smiths and CMD) do only that thing. You can go a bit further if you have e.g. a legendary mason, and set him/her to masonry only and profile the furniture workshop to only allow him/her, and use the lesser masons for blocks.

[Foxite]

You can go a bit further if you have e.g. a legendary mason, and set him/her to masonry only and profile the furniture workshop to only allow him/her, and use the lesser masons for blocks.

That seems like a good idea, but is there a way to make sure furniture jobs go to a specific workshop, and stuff like blocks go to the rest with the manager screen?

[Deboche]

That's another interface thing that could do with fixing. At the moment, what you can do is fill all inferior mason workshops with Blocks orders and suspend them all when they're not necessary. That way, all manager orders will go to the one good mason workshop.

[vanatteveldt]

I prefer workflow over manager jobs specifically because it gives more control over which workshop gets which orders (because you put the repeating orders in yourself).

For incidental items (like blocks, depending on how you see them) you can still given them through the manager, and they will be divided over all workshops. So, your legendary will make some blocks as well, but your non-legendary will never make furniture.

[Wheeljack]

As a few people have said, use of z-levels and stairs is a beautiful thing. Most of my fortresses are far taller than they are wide. I have a central staircase that slices through the entire fortress and my dwarves never wander far from it in any direction. Topside is my protected pastures and farms, along with the bulk of my military behind a retaining wall that can be sealed with a draw bridge. They train outside to avoid getting cave adapted. If I have soil, a level for farming stuff is dug out, and then starting in the stone layers, three levels for workshops. Workshops are grouped together by raw materials, so anything that needs stone is together, etc.

Next is my main floor where the great hall and hospital are. This level is also where I usually house my founding seven and the king/queen if and when I get them. The following levels are for other residences, then the crypt level some levels down. There's a smaller military set up on which ever level I break into the caverns. Currently I don't do much with the caverns so it's usually sealed off most of the time. My prison level is usually somewhere around that depth as well.

I like to play on shallow maps, so my forge level is usually where the lava is, but on deep maps I bring it up close to the residences. I also do some extensive piping with water because I like giving my dwarves wells, so there's extra levels for that between residential levels and the main area too.

Re: Workflow - I use this myself. This one thing allows me to have relatively small stockpiles so my dwarves aren't trekking across a 50-wide stockpile to grab something at the edge. :3