Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Reelya]

What does bay12 as a whole even have to do with this situation? Why do you keep bringing this up? That's exactly what I was talking about, stop pretending I or anyone else is after bay12ers in general.

You're the one who brought it up, repeatedly. And I never made that claim.

I have a feeling you're just running some smear campaign here.

I'm not running any smear campaign at all, I was not even posting in the thread, then you come in accusing me of stuff, I responded to your posts.

Let's get this clear. I did not post anything in the thread. Then YOU appear here going "reelya did this or that. fuck reelya". If someone appears in the thread accusing me of doing things, I have the right to address the accusations, that's how it works.

If you think I came in here with a smear campaign or was whipping up hysteria that people are out to get bay12, show me a post where I said that? I kept everything in-game until the very point you jump in attacking me here.

The point about the leadership of those realms is that I frankly have no idea who the leaders of WC or Lowlands are, they could be anyone and they all predate any bay12-related connections, and WC leadership doesn't even have any contacts with lowland leadership that I'm aware of. Rather than being a part of a clique, those realms are barely aware of each other's existence.

but then I did my own little investigation and it turned out to be a one huge hoax.

the reason I said (in game) that there was going to be a WC invasion is that other realms (e.g. Eldamar which I can personally confirm, and apparently others, though I only have second hand say-so for those) have their leaders making public statements saying to invade Armok plus W.C in support of Ascalon. Those comments are in their general kingdom chat, so easily confirmable.

Note, however that I never came into this thread and started whipping up fear of an Ascalon / Armok / Western Confederation war. you were the one who brought that up as a topic. So I never did the fear-mongering or hoax-spreading you're saying I did.

Nor did I come in the thread whipping up bay12ers about "bay12 under threat". I didn't even post here trying to recruit for Armok, let alone for WC. The only person who made any sort of "bay12 under threat" statement, was you. Myself.

[Insanegame27]

I'm half tempted to just kill off all my chars officially and restart with fresh ones. The Lu house was fun to play and all, and I eventually got to an emperor position of a fuckhuge confederation, won a war and did some cool shit before I lost my sense of purpose with the game and just stopped playing. It's boring at the top. 

[Reelya]

That's the reason most of my chars are small ones with 3 towns each.

Also, I will point out that rather than trying to drag bay12 into a war or make a "they're out to get us" post, I deliberately avoided talking about the issue in the bay12 threads so that it would remain an in-game and non-bay12-related thing. So the entire notion that I created any sort of "they're out to get all bay12!" thing is patently absurd.

What i did say was that the clique Wereboar talked about, of presumably bay12 players who run WC/Armok/Lowlands doesn't actually exist. Lowlands leaders are not the same people as Armok leaders, and WC is ruled by Idraei players. All three realms are run by different people who don't have any outside-the-game connections.

I also never called a single person to "boycott" the game, in fact I messaged some bay12ers to see if they want my old Armok towns in case I leave. That's the exact opposite of what I would do if i wanted a "bay12 boycott".

What was said in the Grand Fate letter was that many of the new knights being recruited to take over suaralis and terra vigila will be likely to leave the game if they get overrun. Since we just about finished handing out everything, they have no defense or centralized army that could come to their defense, and they're going to get a real shitty impression of the game from such an event.

Plus, as Wereboar said before, if the region consolidates too much then there's no room for politics and no drama. A full scale takeover by a powerful nation isn't going to help that.

[Masdus]

Who is overruning anyone? Hawks is busy in the south, EI hasn't shown any interest in anything outside of their borders for I don't know how long, Grand Fate is the most pacifist realm ever known. That leaves Eldamar of the big groups left, and while they have recruited some competent players in their south, their leadership is renown for being completely useless.

[Reelya]

Wereboar laid it out last page, Ascalon seeks to attack Western Confederation because they apparently supported Tor Nidsik vs Ascalon with troops. Except I'm not even sure it would have been physically possible to transport troops that far since the war started.

Look at the public history for Rob, head of Tor Nidsik
http://mightandfealty.com/en/character/view/7329
He lost his first city in the attack on the date 13-28-5, and the current date is  13-35-6. It was a surprise attack too. This loss was 7 game-weeks ago. Each game-week is 6-game-days, and each game-day is 6 real hours. First wind I heard of the counter-attack on WC was actually on 13-33-6. So we're talking 5 game-weeks between the first Ascalon attack and them calling in help against WC. 5 game weeks = 30 game days, or 7.5 days real time.

I'm not sure of the exact timing but it seems highly improbable that an expedition from WC could have made it to landlocked Tor Nidsik in that time span, responding to surprise attack. You'd have to prepare, then walk to a dock, embark, then sail around to e.g. that inlet on the north coast (the shorter way is right through Ascalon's heartland). then force-march all the way down to Valeria. I'm estimating based on another character elsewhere who has 120 troops, it would take 15 game-days of marching after getting off the boat to get down to the vicinity of the fighting. So ~30 game-days if you had 240 troops, for the final land journey.

For the starting point you'd need to work out where they sailed from. All of the north coast of WC was slumbered until recently (two vacant lowlands towns were taken over recently). Xodor lacks coastal settlements. That means the ships came from Terra Vigila, went right around the entire continent, landed on the north coast then marched for 30 game-days south (assuming an army = 240 soldiers). I'm not sure of the exact time for ship movement, but it's not that fast. I'd guesstimate that it would take at least 4-5 actual days of sea travel time to get from the west coast around to where you could disembark for the shortest land journey. So all up, it should take about 10 actual days for anyone from WC to possibly be near the fighting, they shouldn't have arrived yet.

Even an Armok army would have had to do the 5-days trek inland plus a couple of days sailing around. So none of that would have been do-able in the timeframe. Basically, it's too far to even have bothered, and Tor Nidsik looked doomed from the second the war started. Who would bother spending a week marching just to get an entire pissed off Ascalonian army in your face?

[Masdus]

Wereboar laid it out last page, Ascalon seeks to attack Western Confederation because they apparently supported Tor Nidsik vs Ascalon with troops. Except I'm not even sure it would have been physically possible to transport troops that far since the war started.

Look at the public history for Rob, head of Tor Nidsik
http://mightandfealty.com/en/character/view/7329
He lost his first city in the attack on the date 13-28-5, and the current date is  13-35-6. It was a surprise attack too. This loss was 7 game-weeks ago. Each game-week is 6-game-days, and each game-day is 6 real hours. First wind I heard of the counter-attack on WC was actually on 13-33-6. So we're talking 5 game-weeks between the first Ascalon attack and them calling in help against WC. 5 game weeks = 30 game days, or 7.5 days real time.

I'm not sure of the exact timing but it seems highly improbable that an expedition from WC could have made it to landlocked Tor Nidsik in that time span, responding to surprise attack. You'd have to prepare, then walk to a dock, embark, then sail around to e.g. that inlet on the north coast (the shorter way is right through Ascalon's heartland). then force-march all the way down to Valeria. I'm estimating based on another character elsewhere who has 120 troops, it would take 15 game-days of marching after getting off the boat to get down to the vicinity of the fighting. So ~30 game-days if you had 240 troops, for the final land journey.

For the starting point you'd need to work out where they sailed from. All of the north coast of WC was slumbered until recently (two vacant lowlands towns were taken over recently). Xodor lacks coastal settlements. That means the ships came from Terra Vigila, went right around the entire continent, landed on the north coast then marched for 30 game-days south (assuming an army = 240 soldiers). I'm not sure of the exact time for ship movement, but it's not that fast. I'd guesstimate that it would take at least 4-5 actual days of sea travel time to get from the west coast around to where you could disembark for the shortest land journey. So all up, it should take about 10 actual days for anyone from WC to possibly be near the fighting, they shouldn't have arrived yet.

Even an Armok army would have had to do the 5-days trek inland plus a couple of days sailing around. So none of that would have been do-able in the timeframe. Basically, it's too far to even have bothered, and Tor Nidsik looked doomed from the second the war started. Who would bother spending a week marching just to get an entire pissed off Ascalonian army in your face?

Considering that I've sailed my own characters from Hawks to the old Van Valen lands in the time since this war was first brought to my attention on the Discord server, and that it had evidently been running for several days before that, I think you will find you time line is completely wrong.

[wereboar]

Wereboar laid it out last page, Ascalon seeks to attack Western Confederation because they apparently supported Tor Nidsik vs Ascalon with troops. Except I'm not even sure it would have been physically possible to transport troops that far since the war started.

I was quoting your in game letter on that.
I know now for a fact that Ascalon never intended to attack Suaralis or even WC. That's why I'm saying you're running a smear campaign (not on the forum, but in game). I would understand it if your character was just trying to sew discord and roleplay an intrigue, but your ooc inflammatory rant in that same letter totally killed that option and just showed you're a dishonest player.

[Reelya]

I wasn't running a smear campaign, there were third party countries talking about it in the country chats. e.g. in Eldamar's public chat the monarch there was openly stating she needed people to mobilize against Western Confederation. It was after reading *that*, when I got one of my chars onto the line to Vanessa Calinus. I trusted Andrew to at least give me a head's up about what was going on, since the only *available* sources of information I had were indicating some type of invasion was imminent.

If it was a hoax it was a very well orchestrated one that suckered in a lot of people, including realm leaders who were saying it's on. On the M&f forums, some other players have mentioned since then, that they believed it and thought the fighting was already on. Maybe there was a smear campaign going, but none of the information originated with me. All my part was to say "Hey Vanessa, we're hearing people saying quite convincingly that the west is going to be invaded". Basically I was fishing for more information to work out what was going on.

And the gist of the letter was basically for me to GIVE the land to you and Vanessa to take care of, in case it gets attacked. That's why I included you in the letter, since you had talked about including the land in Grand Fate a while ago and attacked me for wanted to "steal" it. Well, I offered to GIVE you guys the land now, and that's supposed to be sneaky as well?? My character there has retired now after giving over all their land to recruited knights, so I don't even benefit from them joininng Grand Fate, but I suggested they look at the idea. It's out of my hands now, I sped up "retirement" plans as a result of the recent annoying shit in the game, but it was done in a sustainable way, there are enough new knights there to keep it going. My real concern (stated in the letter) was that the region would be invaded and the newbies crushed, on some mistaken belief that they were armok or lowlands related players or something. They're not, they're all random recruits. And the main annoyance for me is that I basically just finished repopulating the area with random players via knight's offers, and for it to get invaded at that moment would suck.

Also, as far as WC goes, there are no bay12 related players left there with any high ranks or landholdings. The Symonds and Lu Bu are long gone, i never had more than 1 low-ranked vassal with 3 towns in there either. Players from the pre-Idraei side of the war have been running it again for some time now. Basically third parties were telling me they were about to get stomped, so I talked to one of the people who'd have connections to work out what is going on. Also, armok region will soon be 100% new knights with no bay12 connection, because nobody here is interested, so I've been handing that out via knight's offers. That part will also be complete soon. so you really shouldn't be worried about any sort of clique. There could have been one, but everyone involved retired or is planning to retire.

[Masdus]

I can't understand why you would do that. All evidence gathered over the time the game has run suggests that putting a bunch of newbies into a realm with no clear link to the rest of the game world and no story to really be part of will simply result in a dead realm within a few weeks.

[Reelya]

The realms in question were more or less 100% slumbered though before I started though. Or, I had a knight in one realm or another and everyone slumbered in those realms except me, including the original leader. It's not my job to run those kingdoms, the best I can do is throw knight's offers out until I get a jackpot of one who wants to be in charge.

When I got back to Armok in the first place, for example  there was one other knight with 3 towns as the only active, and he only logs in occasionally and never speaks. It's probably for the best for some new people to populate the area. It has less than 100% chance of being dead, which is an improvement.

[Zangi]

Well, I'm still sitting in Ascalon, in my 2 swamps, being fairly inactive.  Also resulted in my standing armies eating everything in one of my swamps.  ... So I need to fill it up with slaves and peasants again.

[wereboar]

Giving that land to GF is much worse than fighting for independence. People leave this game because nothing ever happens and if you want to avoid war instead of embracing it you're doing your young knights a terrible service.
Some people are bitter losers and they might leave if they lose a war. Good riddance. But if they don't even get to fight in a war and just sit on their hands for months they'll all leave for good, including the good players.

[Reelya]

I'm not a bitter loser because I haven't actually lost a war. You weren't exactly a cheerleader when we did have a war going on, either. You started getting especially pissy after we won.

What would have kept you happy, exactly? If we kept warring neighboring nations constantly?
So you don't like a bay12 alliance expanding infiuence, through any means including war, because that creates a "clique", which controls too much territory, but you also don't like us staying in our own realms and letting other smaller realms co-exist.

I'm handing what I have over to other players, if they have more time than I do then good for them. The time commitment is the annoying part. Wars are won by people who don't have a job or other commitments.

Personally I think it questionable whether constant warring would increase the playerbase in a sustainable fashion. It would lead to burnout, and it would reduce the number of active realms / smaller knights, as large paid accounts would grow through conquests, since those are the accounts that have the edge in a warfare situation.

[wereboar]

Well you're not a bitter winner obviously. But you basically threatened to leave the game if you lost a war (which was not even happening, btw). I was pissy not because you won but because you completely obliterated the defeated. I didn't care about either side, but about the ecosystem in general.

Also, how do you have fun in this game other than conflict? I'm genuinely curious because I don't see anything else there that can captivate a newbie.

[Reelya]

Lot's of people seem to see that differently, roleplaying, realm building and the like.

In fact, I'd argue most players play like that. It's actually a minority who go out of their way to aggro other players.

EDIT: I also can't see the fun in limited wars. You are a member of two major realms, it's a bit different for you because you can retreat and expect the enemy not to follow you, which lets you have a break between limited war engagements.

If you're invaded as a small realm by a large realm, it's completely different. you might manage to outmanoeuver then and defeat the larger realm in battle, but if you then call it off, they'll just out-produce you and stomp you next time by copying whatever tactics you thought up last time. You do in fact need to defeat them properly in that situation. At the time, Idraei had over 100 settlements to our 40 or so. If we let them off they would have invaded again.

And we left Idraei people in charge of almost all the settlements they started with. Idraei did in fact mean to forcibly capture every single one of ours.