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[WealthyRadish]

Netanyahoo was an idiot for suggesting the holocaust is the Mufti fault, but he was right to point to the strong connection between him and the Nazis.

Yeah, this is about the gist of it. I'd blame that misleading clickbait video title for most of the knee-jerk reactions this is inducing (but of course some of the statements in that video are pretty damning). I think there's a more interesting conversation to have about Palestinian nationalism and British support of Zionism in the 1920s, and the mufti really was quite the nazi supporter, but a sensationalist video like this is a bad way to get into that discussion. Dude's totally still an idiot for saying that, though, and it's the sort of statement that's indicative of some of the more unsavory political currents in Israel.

[Bumber]

Damned anti-Semitic Semites.

A self-hating Jew? We don't take kindly to their types in here.

[RedKing]

I didn't peg you for a Neo-Nazi holocaust denier, RedKing.

But seriously, what are you saying?

Just that the anti-Semitic label gets tossed around a bit too casually, I suppose. Usually more in the "criticism of Israel = criticism of Jews = DAS' RACIST" formula, but sometimes in the "Not every German in the Wehrmacht was a bad guy = SOMETHING POTENTIALLY NICE SAID ABOUT HITLER/NAZIS = NEONAZI" mold too.

Mostly just the "WTF did I just hear?" effect of hearing a Prime Minister of Israel be what sounded like a Hitler apologist.

[mainiac]

Yeah totally not all Wehrmacht members were evil, but you said "Hitler or the Nazis".

[inteuniso]

Blame Roosevelt and Chamberlain, not Hitler.

Annnd now I've not blamed Hitler for something. This is new.

[WealthyRadish]

Personally I find it hard to accept anything being "pure evil", but considering it, it's hard to think of a single positive quality of the nazis.

They organized a lot of nature hikes, I guess. Though only really through absorbing organizations that had existed before, and most hitler youth members complained that the nazis took all the fun out of it. There's the whole "strength through joy" campaign with cruises in Italy and other vacation benefits, but that was mostly a farce, as was anything else they supposedly did for worker benefits. They had some pretty sweet outfits and aesthetic sense, if it wasn't for all the nazi shit on them, though of course leave it to Hitler to try to make lederhosen a thing. I think I'll have to agree with maniac here and go with pure evil on this one.

[Reelya]

Kinda missing the point. The point is, there are indeed people for whom every single german soldier = frothing evil, and if you don't agree you're a hitler apologist. I don't remember the thread, but I've read that exact same argument RedKing's talking about, put forth by someone on these very forums a couple of years ago.

But such sentiment is understandable, since everyone is bombarded with victor's logic constantly from the WWII era, so to believe all things German in WWII were evil is basically something several generations were indoctrinated to believe, all through their school years. Also, painting the enemy as dehumanized pure frothing evil also helps to diminish the scale of atrocities commited by your own own side. Happens all the time.

[martinuzz]

Angela Merkel rejected Netanyahu's notion in a press conference with Netanyahu, and reconfirmed Germany's full responsibility for the Shoah, and that she sees no reason for the German public to change their view of history.


https://youtu.be/dmNGkwTSML4

[Neonivek]

What I don't get is why being a holocaust denier instantly makes you Anti-Semitic.

It would be like if I didn't believe, say, Suffrage happened that I'd be sexist.

I mean sure, I can see where one follows the other... but it is always so instant regardless of context (and a lot of the time the context is the stupid Post-WW2 Israel weirdness)

---

But to answer "Anti-Semitic is overused": That was what is was invented for. It is made more to shut down opposition then it is to accurately describe a bigot.

---

Also does it really matter who came up with the idea? The real process that made the holocaust different was the technology and organization involved. The idea of "murdering everyone of one type of people" isn't anything new.

[Vilanat]

Angela Merkel rejected Netanyahu's notion in a press conference with Netanyahu, and reconfirmed Germany's full responsibility for the Shoah, and that she sees no reason for the German public to change their view of history.


https://youtu.be/dmNGkwTSML4

Obviously Germany should take full responsibility for their actions. just like the palestinians should take full responsibility for the Grand Mufti actions.

Accusing one does not excuse the other.

[mainiac]

What I don't get is why being a holocaust denier instantly makes you Anti-Semitic.

It would be like if I didn't believe, say, Suffrage happened that I'd be sexist.

It's an observation of common fact, not a logical deduction.

There is something of a feedback loop in play.  The prevalence of antisemitism among deniers has made it so historians have gone to lengths to establish the historical veracity.  This in turn has made it unlikely for those who aren't antisemites to be deniers while making antisemites more likely to be deniers.

[Neonivek]

What I don't get is why being a holocaust denier instantly makes you Anti-Semitic.

It would be like if I didn't believe, say, Suffrage happened that I'd be sexist.

It's an observation of common fact, not a logical deduction.

Ok I am not even going to pretend to know what you mean here and how it related to what I said. So I'll just ask.

What do you mean here, and how does it relate to what I said?

[mainiac]

Denying the holocaust doesn't make you an antisemite any more then shaving your head and tatooing a sawastika on it makes you a Nazi.  There is no cause and effect.

[Neonivek]

Denying the holocaust doesn't make you an antisemite any more then shaving your head and tatooing a sawastika on it makes you a Nazi.  There is no cause and effect.

Damn Buddhists!

[Antioch]

Denying the holocaust doesn't make you an antisemite any more then shaving your head and tatooing a sawastika on it makes you a Nazi.  There is no cause and effect.

Ohw but there is cause and effect, just the other way around. Being an antisemite makes you 100 times more likely to deny the holocaust.