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[Folly]

Honestly, I see very few bugs. The one I mentioned earlier was a rare exception. And they are patching bugs very quickly.
For the most part, Vermintide 2 seems to be all the good parts of the first game with none of the bad.

[nenjin]

First impressions after a couple hours:

-They're on their story game. I thought the Prologue was pretty cool. The Shadow Bridge or whatever is a nice, sensible explanation for how the party can globe trot across the Empire for different missions and locales.

-The audio quality and VOs seem to be on par with the first game, but I dunno, the VOs seem to be a little less noticable. Might just be all the newness.

-Game runs smooth on my machine on high settings, and I haven't noticed any egregious network issues yet.

-It's the same core gameplay as the first game, with an additional mini-faction worth of enemies added into the mix.

-Several new units for the skaven too. Warpfire thrower, Plague Rat Priests? Modified Rat Ogre.

-Special Rats seem a lot less common in the first game. By contrast, there seem to be way more elite units on average per level.

-Map design seems in the same ballpark as the previous game. I.e. fairly well done, mostly an interesting looking corridor design with periodic "arena" sections and the occasional split path.

-It's cute how the castle hub gets cleaned up and expands as you complete more missions.

-The fighting is about the same, although I'm still getting used to what VT expects again. Seems a little harder to avoid damage from swarms that you're facing head on, but again that may just be my newness.

-More weapons with more subtlety to them. For example, I only play Krueber and I only used the two-handed sword in VT1. In VT2, there are at least two kinds of two handed sword (greatsword and executioner sword types) that I've seen so far. The Executioner's sword is great for spamming light attacks in to crowds, and using charged attacks on a single target. However its charged attack pattern is not good for crowds, nor is it's light attack good for single targets. By contrast, the greatsword has the a great power attack swing for attacking crowds, which is how I remember the 2 handed swords working for Krueber in VT1. It's light attack is also decent at crowd control but no where near as good as the Executioner's sword. But, unlike the Executioner's sword, the two-handed sword can do both a vertical and horizontal power attack, making it fairly versatile for both crowds and single targets. On the other hand, the Executioner's sword gets a straight bonus to headshot damage, making it ideal for taking out big targets. Two different weapons in the same class of weapon type that have strengths and weaknesses in each area. And that's just two weapon types out of the dozens in the game.

-The AI seems.....semi-competent? At least on recruit difficulty. I did two missions alone before I tried some quickplay, and by contrast my runs with the bots went way smoother. But the game may also throttle a lot of things if you're running with bots. Still, they didn't seem stupid, stick to you like glue, and actively attack instead of just block all day like in VT1.

-The loot system is a little more straightforward this time around. No more "how many faces on the die have stuff that's good" yadda yadda crap. It's all a points based system now. Mission complete + heroes alive + loot dice + tomes + grimoires + ranald's gift all come out to a point total which affects the level of the loot box you get. And then you get three drops from that loot box whose rarity is dictated by the level of the loot box.

-This is not a P2W game, but jesus does it present like one. The looting screen is full of pointless "Gee whiz!" loot box animations and takes forever to get through. Maybe mashing buttons helps.

-Character progression certainly is more gamey now, what with Character Levels unlocking new weapon blueprints, talent points and such. Like VT1 I pretty much knew immediately what I wanted to play and reading down the talent list, I'm not blown away. It's good, options are nice, something to look forward to. But nothing so far makes my gamer brain light up with possibilities. Maybe when I'm not in newb tier gear levels and the stuff is more interesting, it'll seem like it has a bit more depth. That said, between subclasses, talent trees and gear, there is plenty of stuff to try just for its own sake, and plenty more layers of mechanics than VT1.

-I also like that most of the crafting options are unlocked very early, not that you have resources to do anything with it yet but at least you can start seeing options for weapons inside your subclass pretty readily.

So far not displeased with my purchase at all. It does seem like a 100% upgrade to VT1 with no "three steps backward, 1 step forward" moments in design so far.

[Folly]

-The Shadow Bridge or whatever is a nice, sensible explanation for how the party can globe trot across the Empire for different missions and locales.

It's a Skittergate.

-Plague Rat Priests?

I've been calling them Berserker rats, since that's how they behave. But yeah, they do kinda look like priests.

-Seems a little harder to avoid damage from swarms that you're facing head on, but again that may just be my newness.

This is definitely a 'git gud' situation. Some weapons come out with a horizontal slash with high cleave, allowing you to simply mow down swarms. Other weapons come out with overhand swings, getting high headshot damage but only hitting a narrow column. Still other weapons have long range, or fast attack rate, or quick recovery from bashing. Knowing what your weapon is capable of will determine if you should be playing aggressively, dodging a lot, or blocking a lot. And of course understanding enemy spawn patterns and pathing so you don't get surrounded, having bombs or class abilities ready when you get surrounded anyway, and sticking close to your allies and watching their backs all factor into a successful mission.

-The loot system is a little more straightforward this time around. No more "how many faces on the die have stuff that's good" yadda yadda crap. It's all a points based system now. Mission complete + heroes alive + loot dice + tomes + grimoires + ranald's gift all come out to a point total which affects the level of the loot box you get. And then you get three drops from that loot box whose rarity is dictated by the level of the loot box.

The loot system is actually pretty much identical to the first game, at least in regards to the random die. Each loot die, tome, and grimoire you collect, as well as bonus from Ranald and auto-matching, will add a random amount to your loot score and determine the tier of loot box you get. The difficulty level you get your box from will cap it's potential power level. Within that cap, power level is then determined by the total number of boxes that all of your heroes have opened. Rarity of the items is then determined by the total number of boxes opened by the specific hero who opens the box, as well as the rarity level of the box itself.

[nenjin]

I guess I didn't know too much about the VT loot system other than what it presented.

It's a Skittergate.

No I meant the Bridge of Shadows.

[Folly]

It's a Skittergate.

No I meant the Bridge of Shadows.

Oh, how the hero party travels. Yeah, I guess a network of magic teleportation obelisks makes more sense than fleeing swarms of heavily armed ratmen in a rickety wagon.

[Kagus]

When you guys are talking about priests/berserkers, do you mean these?:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If so, then... Well, I guess you're both correct. They're religious fanatics devoted to spreading disease and decay in honor of the Horned Rat. Technically a spiritual position, but completely unconcerned about losing their own lives if it means they can contaminate others with the blessings of Nurgthe Thirteenth.

Also, carrying around a censer full of warpstone tends to reduce your natural lifespan to a few days at most, so they're not losing out on much.

[Folly]

When you guys are talking about priests/berserkers, do you mean these?:

The robes look right, though I've never noticed that weapon in game. The rats I'm talking about always come with dual daggers, which they swing wildly, while being resistant to stagger effects. A heavy shield can knock them on their ass, but any other weapon your only option is to block and pray your stamina can endure their full volley. Ranged kills are also a good option, but they are healthy and fast and tend to come in groups, making them good at getting up close and pinning heroes down.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[nenjin]

Honestly disappointed there aren't Skaven Censor bearers. The skaven zerkers don't really stand out IMO, what with shield rats, chaos marauders, chaos warriors and storm vermin.

On the other hand, the Leech with that fucking warp wind magic spell is annoying as hell.

As an aside, I feel like VT2 is...slightly less skill based than VT1? I remember after a good 15 or so hours of VT1 I felt prepared for higher difficulty levels. But that wasn't due to gear so much as my understanding of the game.

With everything synched up under a "Power" rating for your character now, it feels like adequate gear is more important. Your ability to do damage = your ability to survive and that all comes from stacking power across all your items. I remember in VT1 getting a decent blue sword felt like it trivialized the difficulty above recruit for the most part. Now I'm sitting with about half blue gear, half green gear in VT2 and thinking....am I actually ready for veteran difficulty? Still can get my ass handed to me at Power 168 on Recruit occasionally.

[ZebioLizard2]

When you guys are talking about priests/berserkers, do you mean these?:

The robes look right, though I've never noticed that weapon in game. The rats I'm talking about always come with dual daggers, which they swing wildly, while being resistant to stagger effects. A heavy shield can knock them on their ass, but any other weapon your only option is to block and pray your stamina can endure their full volley. Ranged kills are also a good option, but they are healthy and fast and tend to come in groups, making them good at getting up close and pinning heroes down.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here's a few in the group.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The stabby monks are pretty strong that's for sure.

[nenjin]

So after a good 20+ hours, I feel like I can say VT2 feels like a tougher game than VT1. Its director is more of a dick, it can hit you with more things at once that can really disrupt a fight, and it just still seems generally tougher for me to avoid damage in the long run than in VT1. Which is good because the challenge and variety of challenge is entertaining. I feel like I have it play more safe as melee than in the first game.

[Zangi]

Vermintide is on pre-order now and you get instant access to the beta. I was wondering if anyone had any first impressions? It looks like it could be a very fun L4D-like co-op game.

Core Features:
Cooperative Survival For up to 4 Players - Band together with your friends or die alone. Vermintide will continuously test the teamwork and skill of you and your friends. Drop-in, drop-out Multiplayer and the addition of A.I. bots ensures a full team at any time, regardless of available players.

Alright.  So I saw some article about Vermintide being a L4D-like co-op game. 
3 years late, but considering I've put an obscene number of hours in the old L4D and L4D2, both PC and 360.  Reckon I'll go buy this.

[nenjin]

It’s a far richer experience than L4D2 imo. (Sans versus mode)

[Zangi]

But, it was simple.  L4D is much easier to get into.  Point gun, shoot.  Those guys that don't look like zombies?  Super bad for your health.  Which drastically lowers the bar for teammate competence.
Personally, I never did like to play versus.  Vanilla campaign all the way.

Here, you have rats and orcs.  Especially the portraits.  You see that someone killed a rat.  There is no iconic difference.  And the basic hunter and smoker rat pretty much blend into the masses of rats.

I really do neglect utilizing block.  I've gotten used to spamming attacks to make things dead with the elf's dual wields. Taking a hit every now and then is pretty forgiving when you have a passive regeneration, even if limited.  Makes it harder to get into other slower weapons.
I have absolutely zero situational awareness outside my field of view, unless the notification is explicit.  Read in some random place that there is supposed to be some sort of indicator that something is flanking you?  Might've been just a V1 thing.  I never notice till I see the red thing for taking damage.

[Kagus]

Hehehe, yeah, your situational awareness may need a bit of fine-tuning, especially considering that those aren't orcs.

And yes, L4D was simpler, and your weapon loadouts would change over the course of a match (and were generally much more limited in scope). I can definitely see why some would prefer "the original" over Vermintide, but I will heartily agree that there's a lot of the same goodness to be had with VT. And tanks are still terrifying, even when they aren't phasing through the ground or pivoting at massive RPM.

[Zangi]

Northlanders?  Goblins?  Angry People?
I don't really know the lore. 

Salt: 
Disconnecting from the game = no exp at all
Host rage quiting or just plain quiting mid-match = no exp at all 
Some kinda connection error at end of match, right before rewards are distributed = no exp at all

Much worse feeling when you are a lowbie, close to that next level and need more loot.


Edit: Currently have the impression that I need to grind it out for the good stuff before I can get comfortable enough to no-think hop into matches and not worry about getting better shit.  Wham bam done kinda deal that allowed me to continue doing L4D for so long.

What is a good power level for Veteran?