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[Intrinsic]

"The Ground Gives Way. A coffee break roguelike with a simple interface, high re-playability, high variation, and lots and lots of stuff…"

Just saw this pop up on RPS and they speak very favourably of it, article here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/19/the-ground-gives-way-free-roguelike/

Game site is here: http://www.thegroundgivesway.com/download/

Gonna jump in and give it a shot!

Edit: Just to add it is free btw

Edit 2: Has lots of cool ideas, lack of diagonal movement = eww though. Also i'd like to be able to press return instead of having to press space to use something, and also use numpad to move. I managed to kill the Troll at the end of the tutorial without heal pots rwar!

[Bitoru]

It's fun, lack of diagonal movement is killing me, though.

[Frumple]

I managed to kill the Troll at the end of the tutorial without heal pots rwar!

I managed to kill it without even being hit, entirely with melee

... the answer is coat your knife with a disease potion, stab it once, kite it back to a pillar stabbing it occasionally, and then just stand there and stab it until it stops moving.

Though yeah, also chime with the lack of numpad support being... painful. Literally painful, because the actual arrow keys on this computer are tiny and kinda' clumsily placed, so it's somewhat cramp-inducing trying to use the ruddy things. Bloody weird it doesn't even let you use the numpad with numlock off. Those things should just be parsing as arrow keys

Thinking on it, I think I'm just going to bust out joytokey and see about playing the thing with a controller. Few buttons to press, no diagonals, it's about like the thing's made with the intent to do so, and would be significantly more comfortable.

[Intrinsic]

Yeah i didn't kite it back to the pillar, thought about that after i killed it ;p I used the +3 melee dmg wand, coated dagger and hit it a few times until vulnerable, then used the nuke wand and just melee'd until dead.
Hope to get a decent go today at some point if time allows.

[Frumple]

... well, I can say it's notably more comfortable to play with a controller.

Can also say that it's... rather brutal. Twice now I've had insta-kill terrain features blocking the only path forward within the first two levels. Several times I've just not found any weapons, armor, wands, anything (barring, of course, rotted/self damaging foodstuff) on the first or second level (needless to say, if I made it to the third on those runs, I didn't make it further). Many times there's been things you just can't run from or avoid, and it's incredibly easy to run out of HP and food within the first three levels due strictly to the RNG, simply because you don't get the tools (any tools) to deal with what you encounter and are forced to engage with.

I'd tentatively label this as "Worst Sort of Dungeon Generation", insofar as roguelikes go. There's difficult but survivable, with which good play can mitigate or avoid many obstacles, and then there's a spectrum going until you reach "Fuck you" where it doesn't matter how well you play, the game's just going to kill you and there's literally nothing you can do about it except reroll (or, better, put the game down and go play something else ). And this is firmly in the realm of the latter. Even with some of the more difficult roguelikes out there, I've felt that, y'know, the problem is me, I'm not just waiting until the RNG allows me to progress. Here? Here, waiting for RNG largess is the case, because the game can and will throw literally impassible obstacles at you. Which is unpleasant and significantly unfun.

[Robsoie]

I thought i could do with the lack of diagonals, but at mid-tutorial i had enough of that movement limitation and simply ceased to play.

I guess i'm too used to moving in every direction in the many roguelikes i regularly play, the removal of 4 of them is really bad for me.

It's sad in that game context, as it has a lot of good idea for faster play, and at least the monsters are limited in their moves too to get even with that limitation.

[Roundabout Lout]

Yeah, I can't see anything that could remotely justify lack of diagonal movement, it's baffling.

Give it diagonals, improve the level generation, and this would probably end up in my rotation.
I like some of the ideas in here so I'd like to see these change, but the contrast between the traditional look and odd controls makes me wonder about the design philosophy.

[Bitoru]

I kinda love a lot of what this game does, but give it diagonals and a proper control scheme, and prevent unwinnable situations and only then I'll love everything it does.

[Frumple]

Tried cheating, just to see if things got better further in the game.

Instead found out there's an inventory limit and rooms that are filled with apparently unpierceable darkness (including extra light sources!). Also found out that non-lethal weapons* are consistently miserable to use and make resting a terrible proposition you're regularly forced in to because you can't goddamn kill anything and they wake back up when you rest. Why the hell is non-lethal a thing? Why can't I fucking strangle all the crap I'm knocking out so it stays dead?** All sorts of other fairly violent irritations. Did you know sleeping both can silently cause more creatures to spawn on the floor you're on, and trigger overt events like undead attacks? Because it can!

This is a game that hates the player, and not in a fun way. M'done trying, now. Good luck, other people. Good gods that was unpleasant.

*Which, hey, cheat character made it dungeon level 8 or so before I gave up and found zero lethal weapons. Also all of one piece of armor (that didn't actually add armor -- hiking boots, +1 speed, more noise, trap avoidance penalty). No overtly offensive wands (disease one was the closest it got, and without +mp items or the infinite food I gave myself it would have been pretty much impossible to actually use it for anything). Basically some shitty consumables, something like half of which hurt me, a couple of wands I couldn't use, and two clubs. Shitty, shitty clubs that took shenanigans and significant annoyance to kill anything with, because non-lethal says "Go to hell."

**Hell, I'd be content with being able to pick the damned unconscious bastards up and put them down somewhere else. At least that way I could stick them all behind a door and shut it, or better yet throw them into deep water or a lava pit to kill the buggers. Instead, you can't even displace the little shits out of the room or hallway you knock them out in.

[debvon]

Level and item generation does need more work. After a few runs I came across a 1-wide hallway filled with deep water. It branched out into a few rooms but all entrances had deep water. One even had deep water right before a closed door. Diving into deep water causes instant suffocation damage, 3-4 points I think? There was nothing I could do but die. Is there a different way to handle deep water or what?

[Frumple]

There's water breathing and levitation available, most likely accessed by consumables. Good luck actually finding either of those, though. In the couple dozen I ended up killing off before giving up, something like two of them found any sources of those, and one not until like level 5 or 6 of the dungeon. Meanwhile four or five ended up in situations like you describe, with murderterrain blocking the only route forward and no means of doing anything about it. One or two on the first bloody floor

I think my favorite WTF re: the generation that I hit, though, was the time the first level of the dungeon had literally nothing on it. No items, no unusual terrain, no creatures. Nothing. It was completely empty except for the player, some doors, and the stairs down. Character in question died on the next floor fighting something it couldn't run away from -- one of the dog variants that like to spawn early, iirc. -- 'cause, y'know, it was naked, unarmed, and had zero consumables to help survival.

[debvon]

The tutorial clearly states that you need good luck.

[Vattic]

Yeah, I can't see anything that could remotely justify lack of diagonal movement, it's baffling.

I suspect it's because it requires only the arrow keys in a time when many people don't even have a numpad.

[Intrinsic]

Just found a level with 4 downstairs, each one leads to a room with no doors lucky i was only 3 levels down. In one of the rooms though is an arrow slit, which is taunting me with a downstairs just beyond it...had found 2 magic rings already though, but no rods

[Scoops Novel]

This game is baller. Haven't run into any of your problems yet aside from lack of strangling (patched out?) but i wish everyone would steal the food and appraisal system. Love that enemies run away and there's no time wasted.