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[martinuzz]

Yes, his deal has confirmed journalism to be a criminal offense, a black day for journalism indeed, and a black day for USA's democracy and human rights.

[Starver]

Not many props the whole way round. There's no way that the original Swedish allegations are going to be properly examined (including any chance of his being fairly exonerated), leaving his 'folk hero' status an awful lot rough around the edges, even if that's the main take on him.

Every which way, it makes the law look an ass (too soft/too vindictive; too complicit/too manipulated; pick and choose the narrative you wish to complain about, maybe according to which side of the bed you got out of this morning), as well as paranoia fuel for all kinds of people (properly paranoid victims or those who should be actual karmic recipients alike).


The question of whether it was even proper journalism is also in question. There was much journalism that rode on the coat-tails, but a number of errors in the original effort (even down to using the older version of Excel!) that made the (arguably valid) infodunps flawed even from a newsworthiness stance.

[EuchreJack]

I think Chris Hayes does a good job showing parallels of US torture in Iraq and Israel torture.

Oh, so those who aid Israel in getting away with the torture will be rewarded, and those who expose Israel's transgressions will be jailed? Awesome 

At least Julian Assange is free... 12 years later.

Personally I read the Plea Deal as face saving on the part of the American government.

Still a hugely sad day for global press freedom.

Actually, the plea deal of Julian Assange is an improvement for journalism, since the guy that revealed the US Government's use of Waterboarding got a prison sentence of 30 months, and served twenty eight months, which included three months in home confinement.

[feelotraveller]

Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades

[Great Order]

I am shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.

Goddamn I hate the Israeli government. I've no issue with the concept of Israel as a nation, but the government (And the people who keep voting them in) are goddamn scummy.

I can't say I support groups like Hamas, but I can see why they have support. People tend to turn aggressive when they're being trodden on.

[Strongpoint]

I can't say I support groups like Hamas, but I can see why they have support. People tend to turn aggressive when they're being trodden on.

You should say "People tend to turn genocidal fascist religious fanatics when they are being trodden on."

How can you "hate" the Israeli Government but merely "can't say you support" Hamas when Hamas is worse by any possible metric except available military and economic strength?  Why supporters of Israeli government are "goddamn scummy" but supporters of Hamas are "aggressive"?

They are not anti-heroes of an epic story of heroic Palestinian resistance. They are vile monsters. And everyone who supports them can't be excused except if they are misinformed about their true nature. And everyone could see their nature on October 7. (And Gazans were ruled by them for almost two decades, They know it better than anyone)

You see, if your message was - Israel is bad. Well, it is not worth responding to. There are a lot of bad things in Israel. Few will disagree with this. But you had to add the bit about Hamas... And this kind of double standards is exactly what I hate in how "progressive West" portrays the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[hector13]

Who else should Palestinians support in order to protect themselves from what is at best systematic ethnic cleansing by the Israeli regime?

[crazyabe]

Who else should Palestinians support in order to protect themselves

Well they could go back to Fatah- but they stopped supporting them with the death of Arafat.

from what is at best systematic ethnic cleansing by the Israeli regime?

if removing Hamas as an organization from Gaza is ethnic cleansing- that says worse things about Palestinians than the Israeli government honestly.

[Frumple]

Calling what israel's been doing an attempt to remove hamas is either a bad joke or one of the most vigorous denigrations of israeli competence and character the world has ever seen, heh.

[hector13]

Who else should Palestinians support in order to protect themselves

Well they could go back to Fatah- but they stopped supporting them with the death of Arafat.

from what is at best systematic ethnic cleansing by the Israeli regime?

if removing Hamas as an organization from Gaza is ethnic cleansing- that says worse things about Palestinians than the Israeli government honestly.

Who said removing Hamas is ethnic cleansing?

I was referring to the illegal settlements that the Israeli government uses to seize the land of Palestinians, who are forced to live under Israeli military law while the Israeli settlers live under civic law.

These settlers then further push out Palestinians, often violently, with the tacit support of Israeli authorities.

In light of that, what should Palestinians do?

[Maximum Spin]

Who said removing Hamas is ethnic cleansing?

I was referring to the illegal settlements that the Israeli government uses to seize the land of Palestinians, who are forced to live under Israeli military law while the Israeli settlers live under civic law.

These settlers then further push out Palestinians, often violently, with the tacit support of Israeli authorities.

In light of that, what should Palestinians do?

You think support of Hamas, which is almost exclusively in Gaza, is related to Israeli settlements in the West Bank? The two halves of Palestine do not even like each other.

In the unlikely event that any of it is, though, what they should do is consider expressing their opposition by supporting a party that seeks independence (remember, Hamas opposes a two-state solution) rather than explicitly calling for the genocide of Israelis.

ET clarify further: After all, it is not like Hamas' strategy is achieving anything but more suffering, almost as if it was intentionally tuned for exactly that end. Any effort to enforce their territorial claims against Israel will have to be founded in either gaining international credibility or possibly directly appealing to a sponsor. Ironically, they might be able to succeed if the West Bank holds a referendum to join Russia...

[hector13]

Who said removing Hamas is ethnic cleansing?

I was referring to the illegal settlements that the Israeli government uses to seize the land of Palestinians, who are forced to live under Israeli military law while the Israeli settlers live under civic law.

These settlers then further push out Palestinians, often violently, with the tacit support of Israeli authorities.

In light of that, what should Palestinians do?

You think support of Hamas, which is almost exclusively in Gaza, is related to Israeli settlements in the West Bank? The two halves of Palestine do not even like each other.

In the unlikely event that any of it is, though, what they should do is consider expressing their opposition by supporting a party that seeks independence (remember, Hamas opposes a two-state solution) rather than explicitly calling for the genocide of Israelis.

What independence will they have when Israel has stolen the land they want to be independent?

Hamas are utterly abhorrent, but they’re fighting back. If your choice is supporting a monster or oblivion, you’re going to support the monster.

[Maximum Spin]

What independence will they have when Israel has stolen the land they want to be independent?

Hamas are utterly abhorrent, but they’re fighting back. If your choice is supporting a monster or oblivion, you’re going to support the monster.

Hamas aren't fighting back in any meaningful sense, though. First of all, again, Hamas isn't even on the side of the PLA in the West Bank. Second, what are they doing to stop Israeli settlements? What are they even doing that gives them the slightest chance of achieving their claimed goal of wiping out Israel, much less fostering any kind of credible effort to forming a unified government of Palestine (in which they know they would be in the minority)? They behave as if these are not their goals because these aren't their goals. They want to maintain power, not to protect Palestinians (which is why the leadership live comfortably in Qatar).

The choice you're giving is a false dichotomy.

[EuchreJack]

Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades

And we're talking about almost 5 (five) whole square miles.  Maybe it's an American thing, but that doesn't sound like "a lot".

[hector13]

What independence will they have when Israel has stolen the land they want to be independent?

Hamas are utterly abhorrent, but they’re fighting back. If your choice is supporting a monster or oblivion, you’re going to support the monster.

Hamas aren't fighting back in any meaningful sense, though. First of all, again, Hamas isn't even on the side of the PLA in the West Bank. Second, what are they doing to stop Israeli settlements? What are they even doing that gives them the slightest chance of achieving their claimed goal of wiping out Israel, much less fostering any kind of credible effort to forming a unified government of Palestine (in which they know they would be in the minority)? They behave as if these are not their goals because these aren't their goals. They want to maintain power, not to protect Palestinians (which is why the leadership live comfortably in Qatar).

The choice you're giving is a false dichotomy.

That’s not really the point though is it? You’re looking at it the wrong way; they aren’t looking beyond survival here. Even if every Palestinian was a peace-loving love-child of MLK and Gandhi, it doesn’t stop the fact the government in Israel legislates land grabs and supports violent “settlers”.

The choice is to fight back, or lose everything. Today, tomorrow, next week, what does it matter when?

Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades

And we're talking about almost 5 (five) whole square miles.  Maybe it's an American thing, but that doesn't sound like "a lot".

I imagine if the American government started taking assets from certain demographics to support another, there would be uproar.

I also don’t think the scale of land taken will matter much to those who have lost their homes and livelihoods, and the people who move in are more than willing to push out their friends and family nearby, too.